Philosophy for Life
Welcome to the Philosophy for Life podcast, hosted by Darron Brown, where we explore the profound questions and timeless wisdom that shape our existence. Join us on a journey of self-discovery and intellectual exploration as we delve into the depths of philosophy, spirituality, ethics, and the human experience. Through thought-provoking discussions, engaging interviews, and insightful analysis, we seek to unravel the mysteries of life and uncover the underlying truths that guide us. Discover practical insights and philosophical perspectives that can enrich your daily life, challenge your perspectives, and inspire personal growth. Whether you're a curious seeker, a deep thinker, or simply someone passionate about understanding the complexities of our world, Philosophy for Life is your gateway to wisdom and enlightenment. Subscribe now and embark on a transformative quest to gain clarity, find purpose, and embrace the profound beauty of existence.
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Philosophy for Life
From Prison to Purpose with Kardell Sims
What happens when a talented basketball player loses his way and is thrust into the gritty reality of prison life? Cardell Sims' journey from the streets to a federal penitentiary offers a profound look into the struggles and redemption of a man who refused to let his circumstances define him. This episode explores Cardell's life from his challenging upbringing amid the crack epidemic, his entanglement with gangs, to the defining moments that led to his incarceration. Discover how Cardell balanced college basketball with a perilous double life and the crucial turning points that redirected his future.
Cardell's searing account of surviving behind bars paints a vivid picture of the harsh realities of prison life. From navigating dangerous cliques and violent incidents to understanding the legislative changes that shaped his path, this episode delves into the complex dynamics of the prison system. Cardell shares the strategies he employed to stay out of trouble, including aligning with a Christian group, and highlights the impact of returning to old environments on recidivism. His experiences underscore the importance of community and support in breaking free from the cycle of crime and punishment.
Ultimately, the episode takes an inspiring turn as Cardell recounts his journey to self-improvement and professional success. He opens up about the transformative power of influential books and a commitment to personal development that reshaped his mindset. Learn how principles of goal-setting, intention, and gratitude propelled Cardell towards becoming a self-improvement coach and author. His story is a testament to resilience and the potential for positive change, offering valuable insights and motivation for anyone seeking to overcome adversity and achieve their dreams. Don't miss this compelling narrative of redemption and the power of continuous learning.
Hey, what's up everybody. This is Deron Brown, your host of the podcast Philosophy for Life. I have Cardell Sims here with me. He's an author, ex. What's it called Prison mate? Was it Ex-prisoner?
Speaker 2:Formerly incarcerated. They changed the name now and it's starting to get kind of political. So you got to be kind of careful what you say now. So I usually just say someone who experienced incarceration.
Speaker 1:Why did they change the name?
Speaker 2:I mean they're starting to change the language in the reentry field, because they're starting to see that language in the reentry field, because they see that the language impacts and so ex-con inmate, some people even don't like second chances yeah, so they're looking for more positive terms than negative terms I see, I see, so it's a good thing.
Speaker 1:Ultimately, all right. So, yeah, man, we have uh, he's a self-improvement coach as well. You know, um, he has a book. Uh, his book is awesome. We're going to get into it. I want to know a little bit about your background, man. Tell me your story.
Speaker 2:I grew up in a impoverished neighborhood, born in 78. My mother had me when she was 16. I have an older sister that she had two weeks before her 14th birthday. So in reality you had a child raising two children in the projects from Missouri. So I grew up in the projects and you know the environment. This is what it was. In the early 80s crack started to hit. You know. You start to see more violence by the time I was a teenager I got involved in gangs. My mother got addicted to crack. My father he wasn't nowhere around in the picture. I knew him but he lived in a different state, so every six or so years I might visit him.
Speaker 2:By the time I was 15, I got involved with the justice system. I got my first case as a juvenile attempted murder, first degree assault, and what happened was because I could play basketball real well, I had coaches come and speak on my behalf to the judges while I was in court explaining my living situation, explaining the situation with my mother, things of that nature. And so the judge gave me probation with a stipulation that I had to go to a foster home in graduate high school. So from juvenile detention I went to one foster home. It just didn't work out. It was right back in the same neighborhood, actually two houses down from where I live in the neighborhood. It just didn't work. My coach has seen that, and so they found another foster home for me to go to.
Speaker 2:But during this time, all this time, I had this product of my environment. I belong in the hood, I belong to be around the game. That's just what I felt like at all times. And so once I graduated high school, I ended up with a basketball scholarship. But I was to a junior college right there in hometown. So as soon as I graduated high school, I moved right back home into the neighborhood, right back to the same old buddies, the game. But I was living a double life basically. So I would play basketball during the day, go to school, go to college, do the little workouts, basketball practice. Then, once all that's over, I'm hanging out on the block with the homeboys, with the gang, selling drugs. That's how I paid for my way through college.
Speaker 1:I want to know, before Slow down for a second, I want to know why did you does it when you're going about joining the gang, like how does the joining the gang process work?
Speaker 2:I mean, it really wasn't no process being, it's just um the neighborhood, new neighborhood, affiliated, so whatever gang was the neighborhood, I, I grew up in the project, so so, on my behalf, in the project you had button, of course. So most everybody grew up in was, was, was blood affiliated, or you know um six deuce brims, things of that nature, and so, um, it's just you born into it, your, your neighborhood, your environment, and so it really wasn't no jumping into it or anything like that. It was just kind of like a uh, you grew up here, this is, this is your neighborhood, this is what it is. You know, as a teenager, you know we didn't look at it so much more as a gang, it was just more of our neighborhood. This is what it is. You know, as a teenager, you know we didn't look at it so much more as a gang, it was just more of our neighborhood.
Speaker 1:This is our block, um, and we, we had that brotherhood what made you feel like you had to live a double life, why you can just let go of the street life I don't know.
Speaker 2:Um, at that point in time I didn't know. It was just something in me that was just. I felt like that's where I belong. I had a mindset like this is really where I belong, this is what really I was attracted to. This drew me in more than basketball, basketball. It was natural to me this is what I can do. I can play ball all day. Um, something fun to do, something to escape from everything else that I was going through, especially when I started going to college. So, having children and so, um, the, the, the streets was just like man. It was like, I'm gonna be honest with you, was like every day was calling me. I couldn't pull myself away from that, from the basketball, for nothing.
Speaker 1:You said that, especially when you got into college. That's when you said life started having children, you was a father. Can you talk me through the experience that you had in college?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so my first two years I went to a junior college right there in hometown. So the first two years, my first year I got into college it was, you know, you got to look, I've been tucked away in this foster home. So once I was able to graduate I was able to move back home. And so now in a sense, I kind of got a freedom that I didn't have. So now I'm going to school and then I got this freedom that I didn't have. So I'm hanging out in the streets. I got cousins coming in from North Carolina, they're doing their thing. I'm on out in the streets. I got cousins coming in from North Carolina, they're doing their thing. I'm on the block with them. Then I go practice and do all that other stuff too.
Speaker 2:Then women I was a star player, so I had to do the women. So I'm dating three or four women at a time, Get a couple of them pregnant. So I got that going along with it as well. So that was my first year. So in between I had two women pregnant at the same time. My freshman year, so my two oldest children, they're a month and 19 days apart, a month and 19 days apart. So, and neither one of them neither one of them women was my girlfriend at the time, so I had. You're not the only one I know. Yeah, you see what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're not the only one I know, man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you know right. And so basketball I go suit up and do my thing. Then, in between my sophomore year and my freshman and sophomore year, I caught an assault case and I lost a scholarship because I had signed a letter intent to play at UNLV after my sophomore year and so I lost that and I ended up going to a D2 school down signing with a D2 school in West Georgia. So my sophomore year I didn't really have a lot of hassles, it was more school kids, um, you know, came in, started, came into the picture. Um, that did you know? First half of my sophomore year, uh, first semester of sophomore year, the kids was born and so you know, it was adjusting to children. Basketball, you know, still doing my thing. And so, um, after my sophomore year I went to play ball down in West Georgia, down in Georgia. So that was an all-new environment, coming from Missouri to Georgia.
Speaker 2:So when I got down to Georgia, it was in the beginning, it wasn't the same thing, because I didn't really know too many. I didn't know nobody. I had a guy on my team who was from the area where I was playing ball at in Georgia, who his just happened to be one of the big street guys in the area. So I ended up connecting with his brother and jumped right back into doing what I was doing the first two years playing basketball, selling drugs, making money. I was fighting. Georgia was different because people didn't know me in the streets. So, like I said, I had this double life. So when I was making moves, moving the streets, I was going to fight these people. Hey, man, come to the college, check out the game. And they wouldn't believe that I was playing college basketball because of the stuff I was doing. I was fighting, I was in shootouts and they was like man, there's no way you can be playing no college ball, man, you know what I'm saying, yeah, you're doing too much out here to be playing college ball.
Speaker 2:And then they come to the game and I scored 20 points, 10 rebounds, a couple blocks, maybe a few assists, you know, um. So then now they're looking at like, oh, you can, you can really hoop, and so on. The I start going to the rec centers, start playing over there neighborhood and then, um, more dudes they're looking at me like, oh, man, you a ticket, you're going to go to the pros. Man, you got what it takes. But they didn't know.
Speaker 2:He worked hard on the basketball court, it was just a natural guy giving a bit of talent. And this was the last thing on my mind was going to the NBA period or anything of that nature. I was, like I said, even at this phase. I'm four years in college and I've still got the same pattern and getting deeper and deeper in the streets because more people come to watch the game, more dudes look at me as a bag and they want to be down and they know what you need. And all this as soon as my last basketball game, my senior year. As soon as we lost that game and we didn't make the tournament, I dropped out of school and I was full-fledged in the streets. Tell me about the assault.
Speaker 1:You said you lost your scholarship because of an assault case and you had to go to school D2 in Georgia. Can you talk about the assault?
Speaker 2:It was just a big fight. A big fight, you know. People got hurt, things of that nature, and ended up catching the case. Sit in the county. I sat in the county for, uh, probably like three, three and a half weeks. This is summertime, it's probably like three and a half weeks to a month.
Speaker 2:Um, crazy part is a lady, um, when I got put in a foster home, my coach used to come and pick me up at five o'clock in the morning to go do basketball workouts. He used to do everything he can to keep me out of trouble. So one of the things was getting 5 o'clock in the morning going to pick you up before school. You work out, you go to school, and so when I used to go to workouts, it used to be lawyers and all these other people who would be running full court and stuff with us, and it used to be this woman who used to play with us.
Speaker 2:And, uh, when I was caught the case, that women showed up in in the visitor room. She was a lawyer. I didn't know that. She's like cardell, you probably remember me, but we used to play basketball together five in the morning when you was in high school and she also used to ref games, like in our ref games. She's like you know you got great potential. So I seen you got this case and I'm looking over and I get this dismissed. So she got, she got. I saw just the case dismissed. But just from the fact that I caught the case is what I lost the scholarship for.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay, I see All right. So tell me how you ended up going to prison. How did that happen?
Speaker 2:so. So after my last after school, after my last basketball game, I was full fledged in the street. So I started traveling in drugs from georgia to missouri. Um, so one time coming back to missouri, I got on, got got on a high speed with the, with the police, um caught my first drug case. Uh, I sat in the county, uh, in miss Missouri, for probably like six months. I had like a $250,000 bond. Sat in the county for like six months and because of my college education you know, in the college I get probation. None of my juvenile records show up because it was was juvenile. You can't open the case back up during this time. And so as soon as I got probation, as soon as I got out, I went to report to my PO and I went right to the block let me get it back, let me get it back. And I was right back in motion while on probation, because in my mind, my thinking, because I've been in the streets, I know what probation comes with right. And this is how I was thinking, because I've seen it before me play out, before people before me Uncles, cousins, big homies, they got probation, you drop one dirty, they send you to an outpatient treatment. You know you go once a week and then they drop on you. There you work on your substance abuse. You drop two dirties, they send you to a 30-day inpatient treatment. If you drop three dirties, they send you to a prison 120-day drug treatment and behavior program. So in my mind, when they're giving me probation, when they're talking about giving me probation, I already know how this is going to play out. In my mind I'm going to go through this same process because I ain't going to quit smoking weed. I ain't going to quit smoking weed. I'm back on the block. So I'm going to play the game how I seen it played before me. This is how it's supposed to go on the block. So I'm finna play the game how I seen it played before me. This is how I'm supposed to go. So I'm just gonna go right along with how I'm supposed to go. So I get probation. I wasn't trying to get no job. And then I'm still hanging on the block.
Speaker 2:Um po police, ryan bobby, reporting to my po. They drop on me. I drop dirty for marijuana. I go to the outpatient once a week. I go to the outpatient once a week. I go to the outpatient for about a month. I drop dirty there. So they report to my PO. My PO says you need a 30-day inpatient. So they send me to a 30-day inpatient. Get out the 30-day inpatient, go right to the block. Same thing, drop dirty again, they send me to the 120 prison. So in the 120 prison, even though I'm on probation, you go to the 120, but it's a call back, meaning how you do treatment center depends on whether or not the judge calls you back and you get to start your probation over, or he says no, go ahead and send him on to prison.
Speaker 2:Well, because during the times that I was running in and out the program still on the block, I was catching cases and stuff like that. So while I was in the treatment program a whole other case came up. So I had to leave the treatment program, go back to the county and get these new charges, read gun charges, and there was some drug case, drug and gun case. So what they did was they revoked my probation anyway, bob's in the county. So I went to trial. I said I'm going to trial, I go to trial, I lose. So my original time. I had a five-year probation with seven years backup, meaning you violate the probation you got to go through the seven years and when I lost in trial, I did an extra 12 years on top of the seven. So now I got 15 years going to prison.
Speaker 2:Wow, yeah, it was crazy. Wow. So yeah, the game started. They gave me an extra 12 years to go on top of the seven. What we call it? We call it running wild Because in the criminal justice system you get several sentences, you got more than one sentence. They can do it two ways. They can do a concurrent sentence, which means if I would, that 12 would have overruled that seven. I just would have had 12 years. They would have did a concurrent, but they did mine consecutively, which we call run and wild, which means you got to do the seven, so you do the seven. Done with that, you got to start to do the 12. So you got 19 years. So that 19 years. They sent me to the missouri department of corrections and I went to this prison, missouri state prison oh my god man, how long have you been out?
Speaker 2:top three or four oldest prison in the country.
Speaker 1:The nickname of this prison is called. The Blood is 48 Acres.
Speaker 2:How long have you been out of prison? Out of prison now? Right now is six years.
Speaker 1:Six years? Okay, going on seven years. And sorry if I'm not hearing you. I hear you clearly, just sometimes it goes out, so I apologize if I'm asking a question and you answer it, I'm just not hearing it. But oh man, that's wild. How long? Well, not how long.
Speaker 2:That's not the. That's just the start to how I got to be out of six years now. So when I got to 19 years, I go into this prison. When you walk in there there's a sign on the wall that says leave all your hopes and dreams behind. That's what the sign says on the wall when you walk into prison. Leave all your hopes and dreams behind. That's what the sign says on the wall when you walk into prison. I got 19. I'm 23 years old. So I just start what we call the jail and prison. You know, basically that means I'm gambling, fighting, stabbing All of that day. I'm not trying to better myself, no programs, None of that. I'm not trying to better myself. No programs, None of that is in my mind.
Speaker 2:And then, after about five years, a Senate bill passed. They cut the gun case, One of the charges that I lost in trial on it, cut that time, that mandatory minimum time, in half. So I was up for immediate parole. So I go to my parole hearing. They tell me this is how fast my parole hearing was. I walked in there. They said Mr Sims, you part of the problem. You got some more years with us.
Speaker 2:And they said what did you think about institutional behavior and drug treatment Because from your record you ain't been doing that the dropping dirties, fighting and everything else. I told him I'd take it. My criminal thought I knew quicker I get to the treatment, quicker I get home. So even though they gave me a five-year out date, you get five years. If I give you that treatment in one year and do the six months, I'd be out in a year and a half. So I was like, yeah, I'll take the treatment. They gave me the treatment. I got out two years earlier than what I was originally supposed to. Went to the same neighborhood, same block, same gang Started selling the same drugs. Within one year caught another drug case.
Speaker 1:Man, I want to know how did you I mean when I hear these prison stories, like you know, I I mean when you come from the hood you have a bunch of people you know that went to prison. My father went to prison. Best friend literally got out of prison after 14 years this December and they didn't even have smartphones when he got locked up For him. He still is adjusting. You went through something. It's difficult. I want to know. In prison, how do you stay out of trouble? How do you go in? Do your 10, 15 years stay out of trouble so you don you keep? How do you go in? Do your 10, 15 years stay out of trouble so you don't get any more time added?
Speaker 2:It all depends on what level of prison you're in state or federal, to be honest with you. Because in the state most of the states, like in Missouri, the state of Missouri you can just stay to yourself, stay out of the way. Yeah, so you just stay to yourself, stay out of the way in the state. But in the federal system it's random. I went to federal prison my last prison bid and in the federal prison you are in these cliques. You might not want to be in it, but you're going to have to choose what you're going to be in. The cliques are based on race and inside the race there are different cliques. Inside the race they're called cars.
Speaker 2:In federal prison you're stuck in a car. If you try to just do your time, your best bet is just get into the Christian car. So you're black, you're a Christian. Your best bet when you come in is get in the Christian car. They ain't going to be having no meetings. You ain't got to worry about them coming together talking about they finna go to war with somebody. They ain't got no type of illegal operations going on in the car, any of that. They just ain't going to engage in that, unless it was just a race riot and they had no choice. But you know, give it their race. So in the feds it's kind of somewhat different.
Speaker 1:In the state it's just stick to your own, stay out of the way Can you tell me the craziest prison story that you experienced.
Speaker 2:I can give you two of them All right. I can give you two of them all right. Two of them one is where me and two me and three other guys standing. I gotta, I gotta paint the picture on how a prison is built. But these, it's a newer model prison.
Speaker 2:So, um, in front of the prison house, dormit, in front of the unit, you have the basketball court. Boom, you got these two benches that sit there. Then you kind of got like this sidewalk that goes from the unit to the basketball court that you walk up. And then, once you get to the unit, it got like a little way where back in the day obviously that's how old I am you used to be able to smoke in prison. So they had a little open way where you smoked, like a little smoking area. So we're standing in the smoking area and you got one door on your left side. You got one door on your right side. On the door on your left side you go in, there's two units A and B wing. On the right side. There's another two units, c and D wing.
Speaker 2:So you got one guy coming out of C and D unit. You got another guy coming out of A and B unit and right there in front of us to us it looked like they was playing around with each other because it happened so fast. They walked up to each other and you seen, the one that came out of the C and D unit kind of looked like he kind of grabbed dude by his neck or whatever and they tussled a little bit and then the guy went from that, came out the one side. He went back to the other unit. He came out the right side but he went through and ran through the door on the left side, which it really didn't make no difference. But the guy the other guy kept walking up towards the sidewalk, towards the basketball court. So by the time he got to the basketball court we seen him do like this and he turned around and so you got these brown. It was kind of chilly outside.
Speaker 2:So you got these brown, what they call state coats. They're brown coats that they give you when you come into prison. They're brown coats that they give you when you come into prison. They ain't too heavy or nothing like that, it's a little wool brown coat. When he turned around, the whole front of his brown coat was all blood.
Speaker 2:What happened was, when they met, the dude put out a blade and slid his throat right there in there, faced the thing, grabbed him by the back of his head, slid his throat right there in there, face the stuff. Grabbed him by the back of his head, slid his throat right there in the front, boom. And so the dude came back. He was trying to make it to his unit so he walked past us and some blood dropped on one of the guys who was standing with me in his shoe.
Speaker 2:Whenever that happens, a lot of times, once they lock us down, they find that blood on your shoe. You're going to go to the hole just because of the fact you got blood on your shoe. They don't know if you got anything to do with it or not. So what happens is as soon as he went back in the unit, they call it an emergency, 1041 emergency. They get down in there, everybody locked down. Then they make you come out, they shake everybody's hands, stuff like that. So the guy that had a blood on him, he ended up going to the hole. That was one of the craziest one I seen. But the craziest one I seen was when, uh, I seen a guard get beat with a crock pot inside of a laundry bag.
Speaker 1:I'm laughing. I shouldn't be laughing Because I got.
Speaker 2:I'm being dead serious. But the crazy part is like to me, why I laugh is because, honestly, the guard it's crazy. So I had to paint this so you can understand why. In this level five prison that we was in, this mass security prison that we was in when we first got there, it was getting so out of hand that they had to do a lot of things to get control of the prison and one of them was they created what they called this parallel universe, meaning that if you got any type of write-up you immediately went total, no matter what the write-up was for, big or small, it didn't matter. But then once you got out of hole, you went to what they called a parallel universe and it was kind of like the whole. But you can get like your hygiene stuff a little bit like you can get everything but commissary, you don't even get certain type of commissary. Like you couldn't get the coffee, cigarettes and stuff like that. You couldn't order to get the food off. You had to be in this house for 90 days before you get moved back up yard. It was also a petty house because they was given violations. As soon as you get there they might get a small violation and go back to the hole. People was to the point where, before they go to the hole, they were going to get moved off the camp. The only way you're going to get moved off the yard is if you attack a guard, and so wasn't nobody taking no write-ups. It was like a year like we ain't taking no write-ups. You get a write-up, you're just gonna go ahead and whoop the guard because nobody want to go through the parallel universe.
Speaker 2:I seen a dude go from parallel universe weighing like 300 pounds. That time he get back on the yard. Eight months later he was down like 200, 190 because he wasn't able to eat right things like that. So that's when people seen him. They was like nah, before we go down there, we're going to get kicked off the yard. He was the reason why I started, because they seen him like nah, before we go down there, we're going to get kicked off the yard. He was the reason why I started, because I seen him like man. He went down there. He was Fat Joe when he went down there. When he came back, he just joked. You know what I'm saying. So people was like, nah, nah, before we go down there and go through that, we're going to crash the young guards out and you just got to kick us about the yard and so that's what happened. One of the guards gave the dude, my man, cleo Nelly, nelly Uncle, cleo Mack. He gave Cleo a write-up and Cleo got life without we're talking about. He ain't never going home. You said this is Nelly's uncle. Yeah, his name is Nelly's uncle.
Speaker 2:I was locked up in this prison. I was locked up with Nelly's uncle and City Spud. You know who City Spud is. It ain't Nelly's real brother, but they like brother. He was the one of the lunatics that right before they got success, he caught a robbery case. He's the one that got the last verse on. You don't see him in the video, but remember the song If you Want to Go and Take a Ride With Me, that song there. Wow, the dude on the last verse. That ain't in the video, but the verse now that I'm a fly guy when I fly high.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he's in there, nelly used to come and visit me when we was in prison. Murphy Lee, they shut the prison down, stuff like that. I was there with the uncle and him. Matter of fact, we was all in the same housing. They worked together. Me and Nelly's uncle worked in rec together. We used to be cellies, we worked in rec together.
Speaker 2:And what happened was he. He's like, well, he, we already knew what was going to happen. So I had a homeboy, he kind of, he kind of funny. He wanted, while you're doing time, he, he cracking jokes and he making time go by faster. So he, we in the, we all working wreck with nelly uncle.
Speaker 2:So he kind of me like man, big cleo said he ain't going to the hole. He said, man, go ahead and get back to the house, get showering, because when he get there, he gonna, he gonna whoop the guard as soon as the guard come on. You know so what? And so my guy, he laughed. He's like, yeah, hurry up, man, because I can't wait to see this. I'm telling you right there. So we go. We go to the house, we're getting a shower. Because we get the shower out the way, because once this happened, you're gonna be on lockdown. You don't know when you're gonna get out and get a shower. It might be a week or two, and so we go get the shower, we go get our ice and all that. So me and him stand up against the wall.
Speaker 2:Big cle Cleo. Come in there. He go in the room, put the crock pot in the little laundry bag, tied up real tight and sitting outside waiting for shift changes to happen. So he's waiting for the guard to come on. So as soon as the guard came up to him I mean he was coming on, he was walking down they said hey, the guard. What was the guard? The guard's name was Robert. He said hey, robert's man in the hall there. So as the guard came over there, he just took off running with it, boom. But the crazy part to me was my friend was like narrating the sound effects the whole time. So he's like ooh.
Speaker 2:Oh, oh, ooh, get him Cleo. So it was all crazy yeah.
Speaker 1:And then, like I said, they had to Go ahead. Sorry about that, sorry about that.
Speaker 2:I said the way they had it set up was because of the violence was so bad that they used to lock each fence in between each housing unit. They used to lock the gates in between each housing unit. They used to lock the gates in between each housing unit. So all the guards that's inside what we call the bubble or the rotunda they can't come out because if they open the doors, somebody run in and get a hold of the rotunda and open all the yeah, they can't come out. So he got to stay in there and watch him get beat. The other guards they got to run through we in five house, so it's five of the yards they got to run through we in five house, so it's five of the yards that they got to unlock the gate and key to get to before they can get to the yard he had like good he was looking for about good 10, 15 minutes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's what I was just about to ask you how long was he hitting him with that crock pot 15 minutes.
Speaker 2:About 10 to 15 minutes. He was knocking him out, waking him up, and he wasn't no, cleo wasn't no small, he probably about 6'1, probably like 240, you know he was dead. So he was putting everything in my home narrating, and the sound effects and the ad lib and the whole thing that's one of the craziest things I've seen.
Speaker 1:So what happened after he gave him that ass whipping? What happened?
Speaker 2:They sent him up to the you talking about the guard.
Speaker 1:Not the guard, the prisoner. What happened to him after he did that? You?
Speaker 2:talking about Cleo. No, he got about it there. They transferred to another prison. He went to another prison and got bought the yard. Probably did about two, three weeks in seg, sent to another yard, gave him another case. But what's an assault case on the guard when you're already never going home?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I feel you you all right. So I want to get into the self-improvement stuff. So after you got out of prison, like what happened, what made you get, what made you want to write a book about self-improvement and getting your mindset right?
Speaker 2:my last. My last case I called was a federal case, a big indictment, conspiracy indictment. Me and 31 other people got picked up for gang activity, conspiracy to move 100 kilograms or more. And then they took us all into this federal courtroom to hand me this indictment paper. The indictment paper. It had my name versus the United States of America, Cordell Sims versus the United States of America. Right then and there, it was just something about me looking at that paper, seeing that and I'm not 23 at the time, now I'm 34.
Speaker 2:And I've been running in and out of prison, juvenile detention center, foster home since I was 15 years old County jail, jail, state prison. Now here I am, federal prison. And so, standing and looking at the paper, I had a inside voice. I just asked myself man, why do you keep finding yourself in these situations? Only answer I came up with was myself. I keep putting myself in these situations. And so from that point on, I made like a um myself in these situations. And so, from that point on, I made like a silent oath that I would be better whenever I get released. I didn't know how much time I was getting at this point in time this happened, but I knew I would be better when I got released and prepared than I was standing there that day.
Speaker 2:And so the only thing I had to do while I was in the federal holdover was read books. That was it, and so I quit reading the hood novels. I just started reading a lot of knowledge itself, science itself. I read the Seed of the Soul by Gary Zucca, super rich. How to Vessel the Wind, how to Set Smart Goals by Brian Tracy. Man, Rich Dad, Poor Dad. I read so many books, but the thing was I read the Secret, the Gratitude, Conscious, Subconscious, Superconscious, the Alchemy, you know, the Rich and Babylon.
Speaker 2:But I couldn't take these books with me. And I was ordering these books. I had my people order them, send them to the county, send them to the federal holdover, the county jail, and one of their things was once the books come in, you can't take them with you. So I used to take notes of every book that I read. I would highlight and I would put a highlight. I would put on a separate sheet of paper. Sometimes I might. If it was too good, if it was a lot, I'd just rip the pages out, like putting them on the phone. Yeah, if I felt like it was valuable. If I felt like it was that valuable that I needed it even once I released it, I'm going to keep it. I can go with my stats right now where my stuff is.
Speaker 1:I can go with my stats right now where my stuff is and pull it out and show you like I just ripped it off you named some good books because I remember when I started my self-improvement journey and people didn't believe me that I was reading books because I got recruited to play football, so I was in California to Utah for football and you know the stereotype they have of athletes is that you just you, stupid, you know you can't do nothing outside of the sport itself.
Speaker 1:But for whatever reason, I thought football players get that the worst.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, they dig dummies. Yeah. And I remember after I graduated, I was about 24. I tried to play in the league worked out with the Seahawks, the Chargers. It didn't work out and I could have went to Canada but I was like you know, I'm not going to make no money there.
Speaker 1:And then I had a lot more time and I just remember thinking, just sitting myself, like man, I was hungry for knowledge, like I wanted to learn, like in my neighborhood growing up, they didn't teach us anything. You know, they told us they would. The teachers would tell us like he wasn't going to amount to nothing and you know, they just preparing us for prison. My hometown was murder capital in 92. So they really the schools, didn't care for us, honestly, they didn't give us homework or nothing. But, um, I remember just I had the opportunity, for whatever reason, I was conscious enough to know that I had the freedom and the opportunity to learn and do what I wanted to do with my time.
Speaker 1:And you know people who knew me growing up, they can see the pictures and stuff that I post on internet now and it's like man, who, who the hell is? Who is that? You know my, like I said, my best friend went to prison. He came out when we, before he went to prison, we had a barbecue, All of us wearing dreads, goatee, and he get out. And now I'm just I'm way different. So I know for him he's just like what the hell is going on. They got smartphones now. They got what the hell. So I know he just I talk to him, so I know he just I talked to him. But I know he's still just like his mind on top of other things. He's just trying to, you know, catch up with stuff. But I really want to know, man, like when you start reading these books, like what did they make you become aware of? You know, what did you get from them?
Speaker 2:well, the knowledge itself, the knowledge itself, science itself, those books, those particular books, super rich, by Russell Simmons, these books was letting me know more about myself self, the thinking part, the creativity, the wisdom, the willing part. It helps me start to understand the inconstancy of why is somebody inconstant? Why one day they're willing to do something, why on the next day I'm not willing to do it and why the day after that I don't know if I'm willing to do it or not. What causes these things? Contentment, learning about myself and learning about contentment and things. So these knowledge of books and tapping about myself and learning about contentment and things. So these knowledge of books and tapping into myself and the as above, so below, that thing, right, being able to tie myself, to really understand my tie to something greater, my tie to consciousness and things of that nature. And then when I started reading, like Brian Tracy, how to set goals, this literally taught me how to set goals. No goal setting. You know what I'm saying. I'm a street dude rapper running a game. You know what I'm saying. That's what I did. I didn't really strategically know how to set goals and be smart about it.
Speaker 2:When I read how to set smart goals, being specific, how to set goals and be smarter. So when I read out, I said smart goals being specific, how to measure them, is it attainable? Relevancy, things of this nature. So I learned that. Then the conscious, self-conscious and, like the richest man in Babylon, the seed of the soul. I learned about intention, so I was learning many different things. The seed of the soul I learned about intention, so I was learning many different things out of the stuff that I was reading. From the secret of the law of attraction to now I've been reading. I can't remember. It's not the secret, it's the something. But it's talking about gratitude. That's what the whole book is about Saying. People wrote the secret is just another book I forgot the title, but it was about gratitude. So they had these exercises and so I was doing the exercises in that book.
Speaker 1:It's a Napoleon Hill book you're talking about. I just can't think of the name.
Speaker 2:I did Thanking Grow Rich. I did Thanking Grow Rich, and so that's what I was doing. I did Thank and Grow Rich, I did Thank and Grow Rich. That's what I was doing. Everything I was reading, I was writing it down, but I was actually applying what I was reading. Mind books was what I started out with Mindset shift. I was reading books about the mind, how to hypnotize. That's how deep I was into trying to figure out my whole mind, the consciousness and all that. So once I figured it got there together, I started doing the business stuff reading business books, business laws, studying, reading books like contagious and things of that nature. And then I got sentenced.
Speaker 2:When I got sentenced to federal prison, I had to send all that paperwork home and I had my people send it back along with um, but they call you a driver license. That's why I say the federal system is different. So you got to get what your car license the federal system. And in the prison I was in not all federal prisons are like this now, but back then the majority of them was so you got to have your paperwork to walk the prison yard to show that you ain't raping nobody child molester. You ain't snitch none of that. So when I had my people send my court transcripts, my pre-sent investigation report, all of that, I had them send all them notes and I just continued that regimen that I was doing in the federal holdover, in the federal prison I was in a car. I went in a Christian car and nothing like that. I was part of a car because I was locked up in Leavenworth. I'm from the Kansas City area, so Leavenworth is that's Leavenworth, kansas, our backyard. We had one of the biggest cars in the Leavenworth United States Penitentiary. So it was so many of us you couldn't keep tabs on everybody, so it was a clique of us that was all about growth, all about business, and so we would spend a lot of time in the library.
Speaker 2:And then I was taking programs because I didn't have no skills or no trade. I took a janitorial cleaning services. Passed that. Took hotel hospitality and lounging, graduated that college course, became certified concierge. You know, I took ServSafe. Graduated that became got the ServSafe certificate for five years in food management and preparation.
Speaker 2:But then I took this class called Consciousness and Success. It taught me about affirmations and vision boards and I applied them two things to what I was already doing. So, even though every day I was getting up seeking and going for knowledge and trying to put together some things, this helped me make it clear the affirmation. I it clear the affirmation. I only said one affirmation if I start at first, and that was I am greater than the situation that I'm in, and it took me probably like six months until I had faith in that. But I mean, it took me six months till I knew I was really greater than the situation that I was in. I was greater than prison for my mindset to really believe that and have faith in that.
Speaker 2:But did it was being able to now put a vision board up on my wall. So now I'm in the library stealing magazines, ripping pages out. I'm putting together a vision of what I want my life to look like. So now when I wake up, I see the vision board and I'm also saying an affirmation and I got goals and I got a little tutoring job, so I'm helping as well, because my thing was service is king. You know what I'm saying. I always said help, serve. One of the books I read said service is king. You got to learn how to serve first. So I'm being a tutor, serving people, I'm serving, doing my, but all the rest of the day I'm putting together what I'm finna do when I get out First.
Speaker 2:I know I want to be a speaker because I got that on my vision board. I know I want to be an author because I had a guy come in and tell me how easy it was to write a book and upload it to Amazon and sell it. So I said, all right, I'm going to write me some books. So I knew what was on there. And then I had all the sayings, all the quotes on what I was coming out representing. I was coming out representing the visionary hustle Manifest your vision, be the boss of your mission. And so when I walked out of prison, that's all I had no money, just all that information. Then vision boards and the goals and the plans the 90-day goals, the six-month goals, the three-year goals, the one-year goals, the five-year goals, and I just stuck to it.
Speaker 1:Man, that's amazing. You know, um, once you get some kind of information and that information changes your life for the better, it's normal for you to want to share that information with others and help them, you know, out of their situation, because you can see what the problem is. You know how that they, how they can actually, um, get out of that problem. But a lot of times people aren't conscious enough for you seem super organized or aren't even conscious or organized. They don't know how to get started when it comes to addressing a goal in the first place. How did you get organized enough to really put together a plan to help you reach these goals?
Speaker 2:I just sit back and while reading the book, it said I told you when I was reading this book I was working these books. I just wasn't reading, I was working these books. So the book said write down your skills, write down your interests, and right now you know some things that you like to do, what's the skills and what's your interests? So that's when I figured out like I really didn't have the skills. Outside of it was a hustle, not just drugs, but when I say hustle, like I was a rapper, so I done sold over 25 to 30,000 CDs just out of my trunk. So I knew how to get out there and do stuff and put the work in. So being doing work wasn't a thing. I just didn't really have no idea where to start. So when I was reading the book, it said you know what's your interest, you know what I'm saying. And so I started writing down a list. I write down a list and then everything that I wrote down, down a list. I write down a list and then everything that I wrote down. I tried to figure out there was a career lane in those things and then I boiled it down to four or five. I might have had 20 on the paper, but I boiled down to four or five that I can. Okay, I think if I lock in on these four or five, I can really do this. This I told the speaker aspect because I was a rapper. I'm sharing my story ain't never been an issue, just gotta find another way. Um and so, and I told the, I knew that was going to be the best route for me.
Speaker 2:With the jobs coming out of prison that they're going to try to give you, they want want to stick you in the factory, they want you to do these jobs and they ain't paying you too much of anything. And most of my with me, most of my crime was financial. I grew up without nothing, so I'm hustling. I wasn't selling dope because it was the thing to do. I was selling dope because I had to. My mom was on crack, who else was on figures. You know what I'm saying. So this has always been the meaning of survival.
Speaker 2:So, even when I got probation and getting out of prison trying to get a job, and then you got these jobs, that's paying you $10, $11 an hour and then you owe $700 a month in child support and you got another $200, $300 in federal fees and another $200, $300 in state fees. You know that's an easy lead back to going to prison. So I had to make sure that I was sharp and I got that sharp out them books and really doing them books. So then, when it came for me to get out and get a job, I knew for a fact what jobs I wasn't going to do and that was just that. And I wasn't going to be the one that you tell you just need any job. Because you just need any job, because you're just getting out of prison, because any other time I had any jobs, took any jobs getting out of prison, I wouldn't write they. Let me write back to the blog. So what I got, I wanted to figure out my strengths so I knew what the job to find.
Speaker 1:What I got from what you said, man, is that you just was a good student, the books, just like an athlete. You know people coaches say they love to work with athletes when it comes to self-improvement because they just execute. And you took you not only read that book. There's plenty of people who read self-help books, who are in better situations than both of us and they don't apply it. But you actually applied it, created a plan and use that plan to help you get your goals. So that was just kudos to just doing that. In general, I want to know your book. There's so many principles in your book where you list out different things that somebody needs to focus on to actually be successful. One of those is like hard work, hard work, um, having a good attitude. Uh, the one I like the most is surround yourself with greatness. I didn't. I really wanted to dig into that, but I had to really just go through and skim through everything as much as I could. But what?
Speaker 2:well, yeah, so, yeah, you know, um, those are your keys. Uh, yeah, them are my keys hustle, attitude, vision and education. Right, and so you, you be talking about hustle. Hustle is doing, attitude is choosing, vision is seeing, education is knowing. Attitude, to me, is the most important one, because you got to have that right positive mental attitude that you can become these things or that you can accomplish what you seek out, that you want to do, to do.
Speaker 2:If I didn't have the attitude that I was greater than the situation that I was in, I wouldn't apply myself the way I did while I was incarcerated. I had attitude like man, I'm a damn fool sitting here. Man, I'm greater than I'm sitting in prison. If the world wasn't the end of the day, I'd be in prison. I'm greater than this, I'm greater than this stuff going through this. But okay, so if I'm telling myself I'm greater than this, now I gotta prove to myself okay, you're greater than this, so show me that you're greater than this, you know.
Speaker 2:And then education, that's what? Education? That's the second most part, because now I mean what? The vision? So now you got to start creating the vision for yourself. I'm greater than this now, okay, what is the greatness consistent? What's the vision behind the greatness? How are you greater than this? What is greater than this? Look like right. Once you get that vision, now you, it's kind of like putting that destination in google maps. Now you know where you're going. Now the education I didn't know nothing about a lot of things on that vision board, but once I put it on there, I started studying, I started educating myself on them topics and then after that I just put the hustle in.
Speaker 2:You know, and in those four sectors there's many different avenues on that. You know, part of the attitude is surrounding yourself with great people, surrounding yourself with great people who got the positive attitude, because it's going to enhance your attitude. You're not going to be successful hanging around pessimistic people all day, every day. You're going to end up creating the same mind frame, same attitude that they have. I know because I did it on the block. I had a basketball attitude when I was with the team. I had a block attitude when I'm with the block, but majority of the block and street mentality attitude stayed with me, crossed through both, through all lanes, and so it's the same way and so those keys was important to me because I tapped into that and once I realized, okay, these are the four things that I need Always have a positive attitude, always have a vision, always continue to educate yourself and not just educate but apply it.
Speaker 2:And that's the hustle. The hustle is the hard work, outworking one. You know, some people might have a talent, some people might have the money, but ain't nobody going to outwork me. Ain't going to outwork me. If you're doing 10 hours, I'm doing 14. You coming in 30 minutes late, I'm there an hour early. That's all I got.
Speaker 2:And then a faith of trust, the process. If I work this process over and over, consistently, being dedicated to it, waking up every day, doing this day in and day out, even when I don't think I'm seeing results, even when I'm judging. People say we don't do it, but everybody and I'm going to say everybody but most people do it. They see people and they feel what they're doing and they're measuring up where they are. Well, how do they get that more than I'm doing? Even when you have them days, you still wake up and you do it over and over because I know the process. I trust the process. If I continue to put this work in, the payout is going to come. The doors are going to open and I would be able to leverage, so that's why I use the keys. I say you got to have it.
Speaker 1:Hustle, attitude, vision and education. You got to have it. So we at the work close to the end of the show, but I want to. I usually ask people what is their philosophy for life, but you gave me so much, so many bars, this entire podcast. I'm going to have a lot to chop up after this. So instead of asking you that question, I want to ask you this you have five steps to being a visionary that you mention in your book. Could you go over those five steps?
Speaker 2:So five steps to be a visionary man. You know we're talking about see this thing I got 10 books, so yeah, I'm 10 books in um, so I'm, yeah, I'm trying to, I'm trying to remember these five steps in order. Let's see five steps to be a visionary. What's the first one?
Speaker 1:I got it right in front of me anyway, so give me let me, let me get it for you, because it was right next to it, was right around the education part. Let me find it real fast. Education, let me see. Let me find it real fast Education, let me see being a visionary. And it says five steps to becoming a visionary Appreciate people, accept responsibility, strive to learn and improve. Four discover the positive effects of challenges. That's a good one. Take action to make your dreams come true. Could you go over discover the positive, go over discovering the positive effects of challenges? I think that that's a powerful message.
Speaker 2:The positive effects of challenges. A lot of times, when the challenge comes in front of us, we instantly look at the negative side. We instantly say why us, why does this happen to me, why do I got to face this obstacle, why do I got to face this challenge? And then we neglect to look at the reason why and what you can get out of this challenge. For example, man, why I got to catch the federal case at 34, 35 years old. Now I got to go through this and I got to go through that.
Speaker 2:I know people that went to federal prison with me and had that why me attitude about that, that they never tapped into and utilized the time that was in front of them in this challenge when I got in there and I asked myself that question in federal prison, when this is my biggest challenge fighting the United States of America, forget anything else fighting the United States of America at the same time, fighting who I am while fighting the United States of America. And so I'm looking at okay, what you going to do with this time, because any other time I went to prison I didn't do nothing. Any other time that I went to prison, which was the same challenge in a sense, I didn't do nothing but fall right into the negative aspects of the challenge. I got stabbed, using drugs, playing poker on the prison yard, fighting, riding with the guards, the whole, all of that. This time, when I sit back and I ask myself, what are you going to do? You're in a challenge, you're in the biggest challenge. What are you going to do to keep yourself from getting in this type of challenge again? Because I knew the next case I called was going to be federal, this type of challenge again, because I knew the next case I called was going to be federal and from how the federal system does it, I knew my next sentence was going to be 240, 360 months or DC or DCs. So I had to step up to this challenge and the challenge, the biggest challenge, was getting to know who I really was, getting to know myself.
Speaker 2:Killing that I'm a product of my environment, killing gangsta mentality, killing that I belong in the hood. This is the life I know. I don't see nothing else for myself. The hood ain't nothing but for me, challenging belief, challenging those beliefs so I can become a better person. Looking at the bright side of it, saying, if I can do this, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2:I got all this time on my hands. You can come out better. You got to utilize the time. You can't be on the basketball court all day. You can't be sitting there. You can't be at the poker table, you can't be reading the hood and all. You got to start doing something else. And a lot of times, a lot of people see a challenge and they don't rise to the occasion of their challenge. They succumb to the challenge and it really is all a mindset to it. If you think about, okay, what the most of your challenges is where you learn your greatest lessons. The highest heights are gained by those who reach the greatest depths. That's what that means, because during these challenging times is when you're supposed to tap into self, not succumb to the challenge.
Speaker 1:Cardell Sims, it was a pleasure to have you on my show. I love your story man, I love the way you articulate your story and I know that this podcast, this show, is going to help a lot of people who are dealing with a similar situation, that come from a similar environment, share a similar story to you, who are looking for a way out or looking for you know, just people in general who are going through bad times or looking for a way to improve their life. They can definitely benefit from listening to the show. So thank you for coming on and, anyways, for those of you who are watching, hey thanks for being here.
Speaker 1:All right, have a good one man, take care.
