Philosophy for Life
Welcome to the Philosophy for Life podcast, hosted by Darron Brown, where we explore the profound questions and timeless wisdom that shape our existence. Join us on a journey of self-discovery and intellectual exploration as we delve into the depths of philosophy, spirituality, ethics, and the human experience. Through thought-provoking discussions, engaging interviews, and insightful analysis, we seek to unravel the mysteries of life and uncover the underlying truths that guide us. Discover practical insights and philosophical perspectives that can enrich your daily life, challenge your perspectives, and inspire personal growth. Whether you're a curious seeker, a deep thinker, or simply someone passionate about understanding the complexities of our world, Philosophy for Life is your gateway to wisdom and enlightenment. Subscribe now and embark on a transformative quest to gain clarity, find purpose, and embrace the profound beauty of existence.
Find me: https://linktr.ee/darron.r.brown
Philosophy for Life
Empowering Financial Independence: A Woman's Guide with Lisa Chastain
Ever grappled with the complex dance between love and finance? My special guest, Lisa Chastain, brings a decade of empowering women through financial wisdom to our table, offering a fresh perspective on how our personal and generational money narratives influence the modern woman's fiscal outlook. Together, we unravel the threads of how ambition and partnership can coexist harmoniously—or clash—in the financial fabric of our lives.
This episode is a journey through the intimate tales of life's financial and emotional intersections, where Lisa's insights on marriage, self-identity, and the delicate balance of managing money within relationships illuminate the path to personal fulfillment and financial autonomy. Our candid conversations reveal the trials faced by stay-at-home mothers, the perils and triumphs of divorce, and the subtle art of aligning money management with life's joys and challenges. It's an exploration of the critical choices that shape a woman's financial destiny, from the values we share with our partners to the emergency funds that grant us security.
Rounding off our session, we dissect the nuances of saving with intention, gearing up for retirement, and embracing our financial personalities. Lisa imparts a heartfelt philosophy, advocating self-awareness as the cornerstone of life's richness, urging us to cherish every moment. Her profound insights serve as a beacon, guiding us through the maze of money matters, and we sign off with the promise of more enlightening conversations to come. Join us for an episode that's not just about numbers, but about the stories and strategies that mold our financial future.
Hey, what's up guys? This is De'Ron Brown and this is the podcast Velocity for Life. I have Lisa Chastain. She's worked in finance for over a decade and now she helps with empowering women with their finances. I've been on her channel. It looks like she covers a lot more than that, so we're going to really get into it. Lisa, why do you discuss relationships so much Like? Why is relationships and finances important?
Speaker 2:Relationships is a big term. I mean we have our relationship with ourself, we have a relationship with our spiritual entity, we have a relationship with money, and then we have a relationship with other people. It's all connected and for me I got my degree in communication, interpersonal communication, so for me people is a currency for me.
Speaker 1:OK, so you said that we have a relationship with money. How do we get our relationship with money? Is this something that we get? Our relationship with money, is this something that we get from society? Is this something we get from our households? How do we develop our relationship with?
Speaker 2:money. It's a wormhole, but to not take it too far back. I mean it can be generational, it can be ancestral. I think that it ultimately does start way, way, way before we're in this body, in this world, in this life, in this current present body. Me, lisa Chastain, my relationship with money began at a very young age as I watched my parents interact with money, what they said, what they did, the world around me, what money was, what money wasn't we imprint, before the age of seven, on our beliefs and money's included in that. But to go way back, I mean these are like for me as a woman, it was women before me and my great grandma, and great, great, great grandma. I mean it's all generational in my opinion.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay. So generational and spiritual. So generational and spiritual, so generational, I wonder for women. For so long, specifically in this country, women weren't really the breadwinners I want to say they pretty much depended on men. For about the last three generations they were expected to stay at home, raise the kids, while the guys left the house and they brought in the funds and support the family. How does your generational, how does the women in your family from generations from the past, affect the way you look at money today.
Speaker 2:It affects your total relationship with decisions that you make. So, because we imprint and model, that's how we learn, that's how our brains work. How my mom was with money. Where did she learn that? From her mom? Where did my grandma learn about money and about life? From her mom? And so traditionally. And I think that it's this generation in the 21st century that's breaking a lot up because of our access to technology and because of our access to information. We're starting to challenge and question all of that. Great, great great grandmother taught my great great grandmother, taught my great grandmother, my mother as a seven-year-old, six-year-old, five-year-old Lisa, how would I know any different than what those women taught me? Because I modeled after them.
Speaker 1:Okay, so you say that the new generation, they're changing the way women look at money. Obviously, you have a lot more women that are professionals, but that also has other consequences. How, what aspects of today's generation do you like with women when it comes to money?
Speaker 2:and that it will be ours and that we want that. We want that. I want my identity financially to be separate and different than my husband's. That wasn't always the case, but with conversations that are happening like this, conversations that are happening online all day long, women are challenging altogether our identities and our roles in the household, our roles in the world. So by having more money, I think that we're seeing that we have more access, and I did see one of your podcast interviews with one of your guests was talking about how. What was she saying?
Speaker 1:What was her name?
Speaker 2:I forget her name. Oh, she was talking about how we want that access and we want that respect that men have and that we're going after that financially because we're not getting it at home in the way that we used to. And I really like that conversation because it challenges who we've been versus who we get to be and who we want to be. But why? Why do we want that? Why, why do we want that? And that's something that we all need to ask. I don't remember what the original question was, but I like those conversations for women because we get to choose.
Speaker 1:A lot of young women. I mean a lot of women that I know in college. They're go-getters Some of my real good friends that are women that are go-getters. But how does a woman that's a go-getter, how should she go about? Women who are typically focused like this at a young age? They're pretty responsible, so they're looking to find another guy that's responsible. At least that's what I've seen when I was in college. How should a young woman who is driven, who you know has financial goals, who has a vision for her life, how should she actually choose a partner?
Speaker 2:Well, the first, the first place to start is by for herself, defining for herself who she is and owning that 1000% versus how she was raised With money. There's something called toward motivation and away from motivation. Called toward motivation and away from motivation, someone who is toward motivated goes after what they want for the sake of wanting it, and those who are away from motivated have just learned how to move as far away as humanly possible from what it is that they don't want. So someone and I have these conversations with women all the time financially is what is the purpose of you wanting the thing? Is it because you don't want to live like your mom and dad lived? Is it because you don't want to be subjected to what they have? Yeah, or are you working actively toward your goals because those are your goals?
Speaker 2:So the first step is challenge that about yourself. Why do you want? You want, and if it's truly what you want, your unconscious values are helping. They're motivating the choices that you're making. So make sure you're choosing a partner that has similar values before anything, because money's going to come and go. The purpose for wanting something might change, but your partner needs to be on the same wavelength as you and have the same values as you. Choose a partner for that, not what they have or don't have.
Speaker 1:So one of the things that you mentioned, the first thing a woman needs to find out, she needs to figure out who she is. I found for myself personally, it takes you some time to figure out who you are, because you know who you are as a kid. But then you build up layers on top of layers of your family's identity to give for you your cultural identity, excuse me. And then also, just, you start to find your identity through your social group when you're young. But how long did it take you to actually find your identity through your social group when you're young? But how long did it?
Speaker 2:take you to actually find your identity. I, you know, I knew who I was. I knew who I was. Uh, in college, I got to know, I got to know me. In college, Did I have the courage to live the life that I wanted to live? No, not until my 30s, my late 30s actually.
Speaker 1:And how did that impact relationships? Because I see a lot of women when they're thriving and just my female friends I've seen, you know, when they were in college they had this idea of who they had to be and how their partner was supposed to be, had this idea of who they had to be and how their partner was supposed to be, so because of that they kind of chose a specific type of man you know a lot of. I'm sure you know this now, but you can't you really can't read a book by its cover because there's a lot of liars.
Speaker 1:you know, yeah, so how? What can somebody do to actually vet those types of people? Because you can wear a chain, you can buy a nice car, but that does not mean that you're financially responsible.
Speaker 2:Ask a lot of questions and take your time. So scarcity financial scarcity, relationship scarcity, life scarcity If you believe that you're not going to find someone better, If you believe that someone better or your person does not exist, you're going to jump in bed or into a relationship with someone who's not a fit. I did that. I did that. I did all the things that good girls do. Got married at 25. Bought my first house, had a kid, had a career and married a guy who I thought was the best I was ever going to get. And I was so wrong. So in my second on hold on, I want to know about the first marriage.
Speaker 1:You said that you settled. Basically, you got a guy that you thought that was going to be the best. You're not unattractive, so I would think that you'd be able to get a clean cut guy that you know teeth is super clean, his shirts are always ironed. I would expect you to be able to get a good guy. What made this guy like? What do you mean by settle? When you settle for your first marriage?
Speaker 2:I did marry a guy that had his shit together, okay, so I was 22 when I met him. What did I know? What did I know? And at 25, we got married. There were problems between 22 and 25 that I ignored. So he did check the boxes of, had a good job, he was ambitious, he wanted the same things I wanted and he's an alcoholic.
Speaker 1:Okay, Was he always an alcoholic? What did? Was he like a frat guy that got drunk a lot in college?
Speaker 2:you thought it would just go away no okay no, I mean, I was partying a lot too. I grew up in a family of partiers, so alcohol wasn't a problem. I didn't really think it was a problem until he couldn't hold a job oh wow, he had it bad yeah but I was married and I was committed to being married. My parents had been married almost 50 years. You don't get it so going back to ancestral patterns. You don't get a divorce in my family.
Speaker 2:You work through it. So that language. When I went to my mom and I was like I'm unhappy, I can't handle it. Well, my dad was a partier. So she was like, well, you guys will figure it out. But I didn't have to stay. I didn't have to stay because I had a good job, I could make my own money, but I stayed anyway because I thought that I had to turn myself inside out to make the marriage work. And when I put in more work than he did, at a certain point, the most courageous thing I've ever done was tell him I wanted a divorce, because that doesn't happen in my family and it pulled relationships apart, it pulled my family apart. For me to do that, that's the courage that women have, more than any other generation, I think collectively. Collectively, because there are some standout women with courage in our history of women, but collectively we're all saying we don't have to tolerate that anymore.
Speaker 1:Okay, I want to know how long were you guys married? 16 years to know how long were you guys married? 16 years, whoa. 16 years, oh my god, I was expecting like five years, whoa, yeah, you must have been miserable, for you stayed that long. Okay, so you got married at 25.
Speaker 2:You got divorced at 41 no, we were together for 16 years. I apologize. We got together. I got together at 22. We got divorced at 38, 37, 38.
Speaker 1:Okay, and were you a stay-at-home mother? Because I think that you. I heard something about you saying about being about stay. I heard a podcast where you said that you're a stay-at-home mother.
Speaker 2:I was. For three years. I left my job. I worked my way up at UNLV. I worked at UNLV in Las Vegas at 31. My son was three, my husband. What we thought was on the up and up with Wolfgang Puck. He had unlimited earning potential. What we thought was Wolfgang Puck, and so I did what a lot of women do in corporate life is. I was like I'll be the one to leave. And that was a belief that I needed to stay home with my boy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you just want to raise your kids. You know I get it Um what age? You were 31,. You're a stay at home mother, so you were a stay at home mother to the age of 34. And then you went back into the workplace.
Speaker 2:I was miserable at home.
Speaker 1:Whoa why Right so much honesty.
Speaker 2:I was miserable at home.
Speaker 1:I did not.
Speaker 2:I love my kid, I love my son. He's 16 today. I did not like being at home.
Speaker 1:I was just I was lost, Okay. So why were you lost at home?
Speaker 2:Because I would think that you're at home, so you have freedom of your time. Yes, you raise your kid, but then also you can figure out who you are. You can read the books you want to read. You can start a podcast. You have the permission to enjoy it. I have been an achiever as long as I can remember. Achieving things, dreaming for things, going after things is a big part of who I am. Yeah, I was freshman class president, sophomore class president, junior class president, student body president in high school, and that trend kept going in my twenties. And so when I had nothing to do all day, I broke down. I melted down, because what do you do with nothing to do? For me, that was a disconnect of my identity and I wanted to make a difference.
Speaker 1:But it wasn't the PTA. Like my mom was the president of the PTA. That wasn't my dream he was, I guess. He checked all the boxes, so he had potential to be a go-getter as well. Do you think that two people who are hustlers I think that they can make it work, but typically it does not work. Do you think that two people who have that kind of energy in a relationship they both are striving for something Do you think they can make it work?
Speaker 2:I've seen it work in my second marriage. In my first marriage, what I realized is that he didn't know who he was. He wasn't being honest with himself, and his journey through corporate America broke him.
Speaker 1:So to this day, I don't know what it is that he really wants and who he truly is. It breaks most of us.
Speaker 2:Huh, it breaks most of us?
Speaker 1:Huh, it breaks most of us, corporate America.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think a lot of men you know just me on my self-improvement journey. You know I've had the same goals. Well, my goals have changed because society has changed. But my main core goals, I've had them since I was 12. So whenever I had any kind of major distraction in life, something that came up unexpectedly, I was always able to pick myself up, keep moving forward. I had a point of direction. But a lot of men, a lot of people, don't know who they are. They don't have a really a long term goal. You know, once you get out of school is like OK, somebody else is giving you your agenda. Since you were in kindergarten.
Speaker 1:Now you have the freedom to create your own agenda, create your own schedule, your own goals and make things happen. A lot of people, when they don't have their hand held and they're told, ok, now go out, make it happen, they don't know who they are, what to do, they're trying to fit into an archetype but that archetype doesn't really go well with who they are.
Speaker 2:I agree, not everyone's meant to be an entrepreneur. I knew when I left UNLV that I was never going to have a boss again. I was like I'm good, no, thank you. And it's been a journey to get to this level of success being my own boss, not having an organization or a culture to rely on. I get to build it on my own and that motivates me. But knowing in corporate culture and different assessments and different personalities, not everybody is meant to be an entrepreneur or a business owner. There are people who thrive and need to be on teams who are good employees. You have to know who you are to be in the right fit. And for my husband, he's been with his company for over 25 years my second husband and does he love asphalt paving? Not really, but he loves his company and he loves his men and he loves his culture and so he's there for them and that works for him.
Speaker 1:Okay, be honest with me, keep it. Keep it real. You know, um, after you got your divorce, did you guys well? When you filed for divorce, did you guys separate before the divorce was final?
Speaker 2:Yeah, we separated. I told him August 20. I told him August 2017. I wanted a divorce. So August to October was we were still living together. We had a little boy, Connor, and he was. He moved out by January of 2018. And then our divorce was finalized September of 2018. So there was a journey there before we were officially divorced.
Speaker 1:OK, so while you guys were separated, were you already dating?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, were you dating your husband.
Speaker 2:Was I dating my new husband? No.
Speaker 1:Okay, because the reason I asked you this is because I recently ended things with a woman who was separated from her husband and it was awesome. It was an awesome relationship, but it kept taking too long. It's taking so long for the papers to get filed and I feel like it's disrupting her energy and the energy in the relationship and I was like look, I'm happy, I would love to continue things. Just get at me when this thing is done, done.
Speaker 2:Done, done.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Done, done.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that's important.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay. What was um for your new husband? What was different with the way that? How did you manage money in your first marriage versus your second marriage?
Speaker 2:So my first marriage I was always the one managing money, and that was another red flag that I did not pay attention to when I got married, because I wanted to fix him. I was going to fix him, it was going to be great. So I've always managed the money, just like my mom taught me mostly check register style here's your bills, here's the money. Style here's your bills, here's the money. Make sure you get your bills paid, save for your future.
Speaker 2:And my husband and I my ex-husband and I were on the same page to the extent that he went along with it. But then when I did something he didn't like, there was a fight, whatever it was, whatever decision I made that he didn't like. So he would go along with how the money was being managed in the household until he didn't agree with it, and then we'd have a fight about it, reconcile it, move on. So that became the pattern in the marriage, and then also same thing for me. Compliance went along with it, went along with it him making decisions, him purchasing things, him spending money, him avoiding conversations. I allowed it, and then I just got really good at cleaning it up.
Speaker 1:Wow, how did he handle it? You being a woman managing the money and relationship. Was it embarrassing for him? Did the family know? Did people know? Your friends, how do you handle it?
Speaker 2:I have no idea. I have no idea.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow.
Speaker 2:That would be a great question to ask him now how he handled it. I think that for him it was one less thing that he had to worry about and it also allowed him to avoid a lot of problems. He is an avoider Alcoholics tend to be avoiders. He didn't want to have hard conversations. He wanted to do what he wanted to do. So by him not being involved, by me managing it, that was his out to just do whatever he wanted to do. So I don't know how he handled. It is a short answer.
Speaker 1:Did you marry for love or for stability when you were younger, Was it? Do you have like a good major? Was he just hot and you just feel like this is my man, Like what was it?
Speaker 2:At 22,. Why did I marry him? I married him because I really liked him. He didn't have a college education, he had a really strong work ethic and he really wanted to be a good dad, and those were the things that I saw in him, that I loved about him, and we got along he was hot and fun. Pretty much he was fun. Yeah, he was fun, good looking guy. I thought he had the qualities that I wanted at that time idea that I had to be with this supermodel type of woman.
Speaker 1:So I took a lot of women for granted when I was younger and it wasn't until I got with a woman that was, you know, model type beauty that I realized that this girl is so boring and I was like, and I realized like, okay, there's more to a relationship than just looks. You know, there, you need to be compatible. You guys need to be able to talk to each other. There's a lot of different variables that come with having a successful relationship. You've already given your advice on how a young woman should vet a man, but I've asked this question on my last show and I actually did a poll on Instagram and I'm just curious, like should a woman marry for love or for money? You know you want to get your bills paid, but you also want to enjoy your life, so how should you go about that?
Speaker 2:Both.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Both.
Speaker 1:Okay, okay I don't think it.
Speaker 2:I don't. I don't think it does anybody a service to be in an either or conversation, because I've had so many conversations as a coach with clients who married for love and there were so many other things in the relationship that did not work. So, going back to values and vision, if there is a woman who values financial stability and marries for love, but that person is like, artistic and like doesn't have any security or stability, those values are going to come into play real quick in a marriage.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's going to tear down the relationship. I'm just laughing because I had a friend of mine pop in my head. We went to college together and she was always super. She was in finance, she actually got a degree in finance, but she lives dubai now and she's still like a professional go-getter. I'm gonna visit her this, uh, actually next month, but um, when I did that poll, she was like one of the first people to vote for money education, don't, don't marry, don't marry for love wow I'll talk to her about that when I see her.
Speaker 1:But, um, how is money different for women? On your show, I mean? Well, you, you focus on helping women with their finances. Society has opened up a lot for women and it's still not equal. I hear a lot of people say that women get paid equally as man. They just don't work as many hours. It's bullshit. I know women in the professional field that get screwed over. Just even mentioning Just one example, my ex, her mentor, was in law for 20 years and realized that her male co-workers were getting paid a hundred grand more than her. She was getting paid 200 grand a year. They were making 300 grand a year. She brought it up. They made her life a living hell and basically pushed her out of the company. So I know, I know that women aren't. You know there's still issues that they're dealing with. But for women, like, how is money different? Because we're independent now, we're not so family oriented. You, you know how is money different from women than it is than for men?
Speaker 2:the first thing that separates us from men is just our history. American women we weren't. We didn't even have access to being able to sign on our own loans until the 1970s. We couldn't start a business without a man co-signing for any kind of credit, which means we couldn't be independent homeowners until then either. So our history in and of itself makes us different. Going back to modeling, going back to imprinting years, the women that we modeled from and learned from, even if they were go-getters, did not have the same resources and the same access to money that we do today. So our learning curve is great compared to men. And, to that point, the learning curve for women is that, financially, we have not failed as much as men have and we have not taken the risk as much as men have. Have you read, think and Grow Rich.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely, I have the book in the audio book.
Speaker 2:And I think Sharon Lecter was on your show, right.
Speaker 1:Definitely Okay, okay.
Speaker 2:So wealth we know is not evenly distributed anyway, and when you look at that statistic, we're different because we haven't had the same scrapes and bumps and lessons and challenges generationally that men have. Our learning curve is different with money. How are we different, masculine and feminine? Well, we all have masculine and feminine inside of us. Women have been carrying the masculine as much as men have financially, and we're tired I think everybody's tired because of that, everybody. But women have the capacity to bring up the feminine into finance, bring up that softness, that love, that energy, that creativity that typically doesn't exist in finance. Which is why I'm so excited to be in finance right now to bring more feminine energy into money, more creativity, more fun. Feminine energy into money more creativity more fun.
Speaker 2:Honestly, women want to have fun, we want to relax, we want to let our hair down. We bring that essence into the world and into relationships. And for money too, we've been made wrong because we spend 85% of the world's wealth.
Speaker 1:It's so funny you said that line women want to have fun. I literally had Cyndi Lauper on repeat that song for the last two hours. It's like it's a good song. It's blasting in my earphones. I honestly did. I have a little girl. So I was just like, okay, how can I? You know what kind of women in power, chaka Khan, I'm every woman. I was like putting together a playlist. So it's funny that you said that you have a lot of men on your show and you guys discuss male issues. I didn't even I went. I mean I sped through that, I didn't really listen to it, but there was more than enough men on your show and you guys spoke about those issues. Why do you discuss men issues on your podcast?
Speaker 2:We won't win as a society if we're just, if I'm just solely focused and my coaches they gotta love my coaches. They've been challenging me on this for years If we just focus on women and women empowerment and women being powerful and women having what it is that they want, I'm leaving out the other half of what makes us us as humanity, and men have been the leaders financially. I want to learn from them and what I realized? My husband has his own challenges. He's a very vulnerable, powerful man and also had his own mental health challenges, and men are struggling just as much as women are struggling. Today, finances are not so to bridge the gap financially, we all need to be in that conversation about how we can win, but we don't win unless we're winning together.
Speaker 1:What kind of issues do men discuss on your show? What did I mention? The things that men are going through.
Speaker 2:My most recent podcast with Bob. He was Tony Robbins' former CFO. He lost everything. He went from millions and millions and millions of dollars to being homeless and addiction. So he shared a very open, raw, vulnerable conversation with me about publicly. He was like hold off on sharing my name publicly because of how raw I'm going to be on the show to share what I've learned about money, what money is and what money isn't.
Speaker 2:Jm also shared vulnerably about his struggles of being a seven-figure earner and how, growing up in Montana, which is very affluent, he wasn't one of the affluent families growing up in Montana. So the first time he made a million dollars he felt like shit and he actually went down a rabbit hole of alcohol, gained a lot of weight and almost ruined his marriage from that success and that fear or inability to handle success. So the men that I'm bringing on know that I'm going to ask deep questions because I want to get at the heart of what's really hurting us, what's hurting men, so that we have an opportunity to fix it, because money just is like. Just is like. It piles on all the problems. It exacerbates whatever problems already exist.
Speaker 1:Personally, I feel like the thing that I see with men is that women have been liberated from society. They have the option. They have more options than men when it comes to spiritual expression. You know they can choose to be very feminine or, you know, embrace their masculinity. Men, we are still expected to hold that more traditional role. When it comes to a household, we're supposed to be the breadwinner. Society doesn't give us a lot of images of men in a variety of different ways and areas in life, like we're, you know, depending on, depending on, honestly, depending on your ways, race, I will say white guys. They have the stereotype of being having everything together, motionless. You know, you know perfect, they're going to take care of you financially, they're always there and they have more. I guess there's more pressure on them to be successful, but it's hard to succeed, at least the way people did 50 years ago. Today, you know, with a lot of things we have going on, what, what do you? How do you feel about stay at home mothers today?
Speaker 2:I, I, I think it's an awesome choice. It's a powerful choice. I think that for so long we didn't have the choice whether or not to stay home. It was that was the choice was to stay at home. I have, I have, friends who are stay at home moms, who have actively chosen that role, who are making the most of it, and I have other people in my world who that was not an active choice of theirs. It might've been, maybe something they just learned how to model and have had challenges with it. So I think, I think there's a lot to be said for a parent to be home with kids if that's something they want, man or woman. But there are so many ways and in my circle I'm surrounded by female CEOs there's so many ways that we're making it work. We're building support systems. Our kids are thriving, are doing fine without us home. So there's ways to make it work too. It's not a have to anymore. That's my opinion. I don't think it's a have to anymore.
Speaker 1:Okay, the reason I asked that is because you talk about helping women with finances. You are a stay-at-home mother and I mean you have your opinion about Dave Ramsey, but one of the things that he mentions on his show is like I think he pushes more of that traditional family household the woman staying at home raising a kid, the guy working two jobs to help support that family. The divorce rate has risen, you know, over the generations. A woman who's a stay-at-home mother like how can she prepare herself financially for a divorce?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that is the, in my opinion, the single most dangerous conversation that the Dave Ramsey camp pushes. Because if you don't have access to credit, they basically say rip up your credit cards, close all the accounts. So you don't have access to credit, everything has to be a joint account. So if you're not making listen, women already have an issue about owning money, because the majority of the money on the planet is not ours. And then you're saying the only way to be together is to have a joint account. So then she doesn't have any of her own money. And then, if she's not working, her husband is the one that has the 401k and the retirement accounts and the assets and the home, because she has no income To prepare for divorce. If you're not safe in that relationship, you have to start hiding things Right. And if you're not safe to work or make money any other way, how can you get out? It's very concerning for me that that's an all or nothing conversation, because how do you get out?
Speaker 1:How do you feel about credit cards?
Speaker 2:I love credit cards.
Speaker 1:Okay, that's another thing Dave Ramsey hates. So he's saying that women should save money. Well, they should stash money. Basically, they should have a stash that they can do in case any kind of emergency happens.
Speaker 2:What that a woman could stash money.
Speaker 1:Yes, you mentioned that women should have money, like a stash of money. Well, you said they should have a stash. You said something like that, that they need to um, they need to set things aside, or something like that. Did I mishear you?
Speaker 2:Oh, no, well, I mean, I talk about stashing, stacking cash.
Speaker 1:Stacking Okay.
Speaker 2:So I have, um, I have a best friend of mine who husband, her husband, lost his job and she's like what do we do? Well, the first thing families will look to is like we got to pay off all our debt. I'm like no, stack the cash, stack the cash.
Speaker 1:Stack it Okay.
Speaker 2:But for a woman who wants to become independent yes. Have money somewhere that is not accessible to your significant other yes.
Speaker 1:Oh, that sounds super dirty. So one of the things that I hear a lot, specifically with Dave Ramsey is that you guys need to share, you need to have a shared account your money is his money, his money is yours and that if you guys are have all these secrets, then it's like you're going to have a fell relationship. I know that you weren't with a go-getter, you're with somebody that was an alcoholic, but I guess Dave Ramsey's way of doing things isn't completely practical. I guess in today's society.
Speaker 2:It's an absolute in a non-absolute world. It's a very strict way of life, it's very fundamental and it's not I don't think it's accessible for the majority of Americans. Today, we are the most diverse group of people on the planet ever Diverse opinions, diverse talents, diverse. Everything and money needs to be flexible, and the reason there are secrets is that there's not trust. And the reason that there's not trust is that there's a breakdown in communication and in the relationship. Your money only mirrors what's working or not working in a relationship.
Speaker 1:How should families budget money? Then I mean, like if you're in debt, if a family is in debt, you're saying that they shouldn't pay off that debt. They should stack the stack.
Speaker 2:It depends on the situation.
Speaker 2:So if a family is in debt and they lose an income in the moment, even if they're like full go trying to get out of debt.
Speaker 2:If they lose an entire income, like reevaluate, and I would say the most important thing for you to do is to put some money, keep money in the bank account, keep money in savings, take the money that you have, take the cash that you have and conserve it until you figure out how that income will be replaced or if that income will be replaced, and then you can get back to paying off debt. I'm not saying don't pay off debt, I'm just saying be flexible with what's going on. When we categorically make something wrong or bad, we shame ourselves if we have to go in that direction, and shame in and of itself is killing us right now. It's killing us to just open it up and talk about all kinds of scenarios so that we can have a healthy relationship with money and ourselves and create whatever it is that we want to create. And sometimes, if you got to go into debt for it, go into debt for it.
Speaker 1:Is stashing cash the same as having an emergency fund?
Speaker 2:Depending on the situation. Yes, stacking cash, but again into that situation, like my girlfriend Gail. Her husband lost his job. He was making $250,000 a year. They already had an emergency fund. But how large is the emergency fund? How long is it going to last? There's so many unknowns. Just hold on to your cash for a minute, take a breath and then reevaluate and figure out what you're going to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I get it. I have a bank account that I don't even look at. I have money in it and I just, you know, I don't ever want to see, I don't ever want to look at it unless I have to look at it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just squirrel. I'm such a squirrel I've got like money everywhere. I like having different accounts and different options, for sure.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, say, a woman is going through a divorce. She was a stay at home mother. She's going through a divorce. What are her first steps? What would you recommend?
Speaker 2:She's going through a divorce. She's staying home. She's staying home.
Speaker 1:She's a stay at home mother. How can she prepare for life after this divorce Gosh?
Speaker 2:what is the first step I would have someone take as quickly as humanly possible? Generate revenue, generate income, start generating income as soon as humanly possible. Start generating income as soon as humanly possible. And I say that because I've I've got lots of clients who have gone through divorce and I I knew them before the divorce and after the divorce and I don't know if you've experienced this with your friends and network. But people make a lot of promises before a divorce and they can play nice up to a certain extent, even through the divorce, but people change after a divorce. So even in situations like child support, where someone promises child support or alimony, once that divorce is finalized you may never see that money again. Really, you would like to think that people would do the right thing.
Speaker 1:But how do you get around not paying child support?
Speaker 2:There's lots of ways. There's lots of ways, and for a woman who doesn't feel in her body, the right thing to do is to hold them accountable. A woman who doesn't want to fight, a woman who doesn't want to go to court, a woman who doesn't want to challenge them depending on how toxic that relationship is, someone might choose just to not rock the boat.
Speaker 1:Okay, I get it. I get it. A lot of women are dealing and I can speak from experience, just women in my family. They're dealing with men who are children.
Speaker 2:And they're just exhausted men who are children and they're just exhausted.
Speaker 1:Women are exhausted, they get tired, just get going on your new life as soon as humanly possible and do your best to not rely on that person taking care of you in any way, shape or form. Okay, I think you had a video about saving. I think you were against saving money.
Speaker 2:Is that correct? No, okay, I think you had a video about saving.
Speaker 1:I think you were against saving money, is that correct? No, okay, so I heard okay. I heard that wrong then, cause I know Dave Ramsey is about saving money, so I thought that that was. That's what I heard.
Speaker 2:No, you got to save money. But I have different philosophies about saving. Let's get into it.
Speaker 1:What do you mean? Okay about saving, let's get into it. What do you?
Speaker 2:mean Okay, Well, there's two reasons to save, in my opinion save to save, save to spend.
Speaker 1:People go into debt because they don't know how to save for the things that they want to spend money on.
Speaker 2:So savings now I can't say this is for everyone, but 60% of Americans are in debt. Majority of Americans are still living paycheck to paycheck. So we're going to hit some of your audience today. When you just put money in a savings account and you have no purpose for it and you think it's just for emergencies and other than that, you think it's just for emergencies and other than that, there's no purpose for it. It's going to get spent. It's going to get used. So if you can make savings more purposeful, I recommend not initially.
Speaker 2:When I first start meeting with people, I say just practice holding on to money, learn how to hold on to money. Step one if you don't know how to hold on to money, that's just put money in a savings account and learn how not to touch it. For like a minute, give yourself time to learn how to just set it aside and not touch it, but eventually let's have an emergency savings. It could be one month, it could be two months. I'm all about wins and helping clients see wins, versus saying you need to have nine months of an emergency reserve and then thinking and believing that's not possible, so I could never do that. So why even try? So let's set a goal. Okay, maybe it's a month reserve.
Speaker 2:Once you've met that goal, what else do you want to do with your money this year? Because I know you're already planning on certain things You're going to go to a family reunion, you want to take your kids to Disneyland. What do you really want to do with your money this year? So, once you have a little reserve set up, let's be realistic about the things you are going to spend your money on and then put those in your save to spend bucket and learn how to save toward the trips, toward the travel, toward the vacations, toward the fun. I think we can do both. I know I get the pushback at live events all the time, but wait, like I am broke, I don't have any money. Well, broke is a feeling, broke is not a number.
Speaker 1:Okay, I can agree. I can agree with that because I always thought I was rich, because everybody I was around always had enough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:You know so.
Speaker 2:It's a feeling, it's not a number.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:But I think having different purposes for saving and understanding how you have yourself set up to save, to spend money. There's so much that we could talk about, but I don't know what else.
Speaker 1:All this money, all this money talk made me look at my bank account. Let me check out my account right now.
Speaker 2:Where am I at today? I love it.
Speaker 1:How do you? Okay, you have a video on strict budgeting.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You said you don't like it. But who is strict budgeting for and who is it not for?
Speaker 2:I teach the five money personalities in my world and there are certain people who thrive with structure, people who thrive with structure, who need structure and plans and who feel safe with structure and plans. Not everyone likes being with money that way, so strict budgeting, I think, is unsustainable. First, I'll say that Strict budgeting is unsustainable in the longevity of someone's life. How many times have we heard about someone who has a million dollars and dies a rich person but never lived their life? It's not sustainable. Live your life, be happy.
Speaker 2:Strict budgeting works when you have a very specific goal.
Speaker 2:I was just on a podcast with a woman named Avery who talks about investing in short-term rentals and for a short window of time, she and her family were on a strict budget so that they could meet the goal of having the down payment to make the investment for the property.
Speaker 2:When you have a short-term goal and you're going to dial it down and you're going to be focused to meet that goal, we can do that almost with everything our health, we can do that with time. We can do that with money, but not long-term sustainability-wise, which is why Dave Ramsey works for paying off debt, because he gets people so narrowly focused into that goal of getting out of debt. They're willing to do anything and take it down to nothing to reach that goal. But if the only goal that you have is to get out of debt, what happens once you get out of debt? Have you really trained yourself how to love money and be in a healthy relationship with money? I'm not convinced of that because I have a lot of Dave Ramsey dropouts that come back to me and they're like well, that didn't work because it's not sustainable. But I think for very clear, narrowly specific goals it can work.
Speaker 1:I think it depends on the person's how much money they make, what their lifestyle is. Like Dave Ramsey, it worked for me. It helped me get out of debt. But I think it helped me get out of debt because of what you said.
Speaker 2:It had me focus on the debt.
Speaker 1:That's all I thought about was like okay, credit card debt, pay off this loan. That's all I thought about was like okay, credit card debt, pay off this loan. That's all I thought about was like how can I get money to pay this off?
Speaker 1:So that may have had something to do with it. But what about retirement? I love software development, but we all reach an age where society sees us as expendable. How should somebody go about preparing for retirement? Yes, you want to enjoy your life, but once you get old and you know, especially if you only had cats and dogs, you know, how do you, how do you, how do you prepare for that?
Speaker 2:Make sure it's not a nebulous goal. Not having enough for retirement is not specific, it's not clear, it's not actionable. Having enough for retirement is not specific, it's not clear, it's not actionable. The very first thing that I talk to my clients about is what do you need to have and by when and for what purpose? By when and for what purpose? So your life costs you, however much it costs you today. This is where a good financial planner they do great work for this purpose. They help people put their goals together, plan for that date.
Speaker 2:We know my husband and I we have a goal of him being able to whether he chooses to or not retire at 55, whether he chooses to or not, I know exactly how much money we need to have and I know exactly how much money our life costs money we need to have, and I know exactly how much money our life costs. So I'm saving toward that goal and I'm investing in the right vehicles to reach that goal with relationship with my financial advisor. I was like, all right, this is what we want to do. She's like okay, you need to have this amount saved and you need and I I need to be earning a certain amount to be able to make up for what his earnings were. So we can pull all the triggers at the right time to have what it is that we want. But being in a conversation of not having enough for retirement isn't going to serve you. Get clear and specific on how much you need for retirement.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Start there.
Speaker 1:What about paying your house off? Dave Ramsey talks about paying your house off and that's very I mean, that's not going to happen for most people. Most people won't even buy a house, so is that something that? Is that a reality? Like how should somebody? I would think that you can really live your life if you're going to be trying to pay your house off.
Speaker 2:For what purpose is the question? You can have a mortgage and still invest. If you're making $100,000 a year or more, or $200,000 a year, you can simultaneously reach your goals. The mortgage conversation is what I'm a fan of is that you decide that you're going to live somewhere and not have a mortgage by a certain age, so a 30-year mortgage. Well, if you buy a house at 30, you have it at 60, it's paid off, then at least you have some type of security and some type of asset where you're not paying rent the rest of your life. I'm a fan of that idea, even if it's a condo.
Speaker 2:I had a client she had she bought a condo. She had another house, but she had a condo and she always knew that that condo would be something that she could go back to when she decided to stop running and living big. She's like I got my condo, my condo's paid off, I can run it out. So the mortgage, whatever, you're going to have a mortgage, okay. But again, for what purpose? That's the coach in me. For what purpose? I stay away from absolutes financially, because everybody's situation is different. Everybody's goals are different.
Speaker 1:Makes sense, At least with real estate. You know the value of it goes up in time, so you can either stay there or you can move and buy something cheaper in Mexico or something. But you mentioned the financial personalities. What are they?
Speaker 2:Cheap chip which is like the little squirrel who likes to squirrel all the money away, doesn't like to spend money. Those are the very analytical kind of people. They can also live in scarcity.
Speaker 1:That's not me.
Speaker 2:They can also live in scarcity For a long time. When I do these seminars, I've done the seminar for a lot of financial people. There's a lot of people in the financial world who are cheap chips and it comes with like they like to analyze data, they like to have a plan, they're very thorough, they take their time in making decisions. That's pretty prudent financially. Warren Buffett's a cheap chip. He grew his wealth very steadily over time and then all of a sudden boom. It compounded right. But not everybody's like that and I've seen couples where one is not a cheap chip, One is a spendthrift, that's another one.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:People who like to spend money very free, very fun, very in the moment, very present life of the party kind of people. The act of spending money and moving money is exciting to them, but not a cheap chip, a cheap chip. Parting with their money is like pulling a tooth. They do not like to part with their money. Spendthrifts love it. They're really good at it. Goods and bads to both. Spendthrifts will just be like I'll go make more money. Spendthrifts make money well.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Make sense. Yeah, okay, overgenerous Olivia or overgenerous Oliver people that wake up in service they want to serve People are their currency. Who they're going to help matters Over generous Olivia's. Put people before themselves. They want to start nonprofits or they have a nonprofit chronically under earners, they give time and money away for free. I'm an over generous Olivia.
Speaker 1:The over generous? Okay, okay, so repeat that again what is the generous person?
Speaker 2:Okay, over generous Olivia. So my husband's partly over generous, he's a spendthrift and over generous, but in service to others. They're the, they're the people people, they're in service kind of roles in life for the sake of helping people. And they can be people financially who don't put themselves first, who put others first. That doesn't help, that doesn't help them. But that's a different kind of money personality with different kinds of challenges than a spendthrift or a cheap chip.
Speaker 1:Okay, so what would I be labeled as? I'm a home owner. I don't want to say how much I make, but I do whatever I need to do to make a large amount of income I like to travel. I'm really not into cars at all, but I am into dressing well. I'm into just like, really building wealth, staying out of debt and having freedom to do what I want to do with my life, my time and money.
Speaker 2:You're number four. I think you're a combination of a cheap chip and a delusional Dan.
Speaker 1:Oh man Okay.
Speaker 2:My mentor, robin Crane, came up with these, but it's poking. We're poking fun deliberately because we get to poke fun at ourselves and financially. We haven't learned that muscle yet. Delusional Dan, which is my second money type big dreamers.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:Aspirational success is very important to delusional dance.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is.
Speaker 2:Yep, motivated by success, want other people to believe that they're successful.
Speaker 1:And that's not a bad thing. I'm not a phony, I don't wear chains and be lying to people. No, no, no I know people who do that buy cars they can't afford.
Speaker 2:Yeah no, you sound like you're a hybrid between a cheap chip and a delusional Dan. You sound like you're a hybrid between a cheap chip and a delusional Dan. Like you're sensible with money. You're not going to necessarily take huge risks, but you would if you could know that there's the upside for it. But you think big, you dream big, you want to go for it in life. That's probably maybe some of your athletic training in there too. Like success, you got to go for the win.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's definitely me then.
Speaker 2:Okay, so do you need a?
Speaker 1:partner that's financially compatible with you.
Speaker 2:Yes, okay, yes, and interestingly enough, because of the fire of ice of the feminine and masculine in a lot of ways not always, but people who are opposites attract one another for that balance and that energy and relationship. So a lot of times I have a cheap chip in relationship with a spendthrift and they do not get each other financially because they are polar opposites.
Speaker 1:That's two opposite. That's two opposite. If you're trying to save every penny, you're trying to go to the cheapest grocery store.
Speaker 2:Scroll it away, scroll it away, scroll it away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that definitely doesn't work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but a delusional Dan and a spendthrift can be very successful together because the motion of an action of life is good and healthy is good and healthy. They can all be compatible and that's where value systems and goals and vision come into play. And strengths and weaknesses we all have those in relationship.
Speaker 1:Okay, that makes sense. I think I am pretty aggressive because I don't even care about. I don't care about spending the money, but I care about what I spend it on. I think it's a waste. A car is a car to me. My car was what it cost nine grand. It was 12,000 miles on it.
Speaker 1:It's not the fanciest car but, it's a nice car I mean, it's nice to me at least but I really don't care about buying a Tesla or anything like that. I'd rather spend my money on going on trips to Europe or Antarctica, something like that. That's what I like to do, but I don't mind taking a risk.
Speaker 2:Yeah, cheap chips. Do not like taking risks.
Speaker 1:Yeah, makes sense, okay, so I think that's oh yeah for relationships, relationships. I got one more for you. When you're building a relationship with somebody and they hit all the check boxes you know they're attractive, they may have the finances, but they're in debt like should you be, should a woman or a person be cautious about dating somebody that has a significant amount of debt?
Speaker 2:I mean, I'm I'm probably like one of the only financial experts out there right now. That just doesn't.
Speaker 1:I don't it's not.
Speaker 2:it's not that I don't care, it's just that when did we start defining ourselves by that? And it would be concerning to me. It would be something you want to question, not judge. Question, don't judge. What is the purpose of being in debt? What happened? Where are you in life right now? What are your goals? And then watch to make sure that their actions align with their words. Right, if you as I'm speaking to you specifically if you don't value and you can't tolerate debt, if it's not something that is a framework for you, and you fall in love with someone who's picking up the pieces of her life from divorce, are you going to judge her for that?
Speaker 1:Or are you?
Speaker 2:going to lift her up and empower her right.
Speaker 1:Of course not. I would create a plan to help her with her debt and then create some kind of security stash in case something happened in the future.
Speaker 2:Which you have anyway. Which you have anyway. There's no crystal ball. I have a friend who has blood cancer and at this point she's accumulated millions of dollars in medical debt that she'll never be able to pay back. Love them or judge them that's a choice.
Speaker 1:I get it. That's a rare situation. I'm just thinking like does it snowball? Like you, just based off this conversation, you've been in debt at some point in time, but you manage your money well, you know, so it's probably not a significant crazy amount like I mean. Obviously, if you own a home, you know you're paying off your house you know, but you manage your money pretty well, but doesn't it?
Speaker 1:could it like I'm listening to dave ramsey? Um, isn't it like a snowball effect, like people get overwhelmed with bills and then everything's their paycheck is going straight to bills Like what's the? Some people, so what's the?
Speaker 2:problem. What's? The problem right. The debt is a symptom of the problem.
Speaker 1:I see, okay, I get it.
Speaker 2:What's going? What's going on? So get really curious about what's happened, why that person has debt, so then you can decide whether or not you're going to be a part of the problem or the solution, or if it's just not a fit right. Some people don't have their shit together. Some people don't know how to manage their money. Is that a match for you? But love them or judge them is the question for everyone to be in. Am I going to love this person through this and take your time, like for my husband, my new husband? What I didn't do in my first relationship was get very, very curious and watch him. Who is he with other people? How does he treat the waiter at the restaurant? How does he treat his parents? How does he show up at church? What are the conversations he's having with the people at work? Who is he?
Speaker 1:Wisdom, wisdom, wisdom, wisdom. This sounds like the conversations that I have with some female friends of mine. Like I tell them about choosing a guy. I was like dating is easy. You just have to invest time in getting to know the person. You're looking at a dating app or you're looking at the way somebody looks and how they're you know just their public image and you're trying to decide on okay, this is a perfect partner for me. Trying to decide on okay, this is a perfect partner for me.
Speaker 1:But there's a lot of talk on the internet about a high value man. High value man you know he makes six figures. You know high value man has a nice car, he has options of women, yada, yada, yada yada. But I've said this on my podcast with other men. You know, a high value man, it has to do with your character. It has everything to do with your character, because men existed before all these other things existed. So you need to know what the person you're truly dealing with like, what their spirit is like, what their heart is like, how do they treat their loved ones. You know that'll let you know. That's what a true alpha male is. It's not about having muscles or any of that stuff.
Speaker 2:It's not superficial.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's mental and spiritual.
Speaker 2:Mental and spiritual Yep I agree.
Speaker 1:Okay, lisa. Um, I always ask my guests this um, could you leave our listeners with any kind of advice? What would you say your philosophy for life is?
Speaker 2:Life is short. Life is short when this life we don't know how long we have Do the work to get to know yourself and love yourself, and then go get to loving other people.
Speaker 1:Lovely. Thank you, Lisa. This was a fun podcast. Maybe we can do it again in the future. Where do you look at it? Vegas okay, so you're right next to me. That's a cheap ticket. I have a studio. This is a studio I've already put together. I had the highlights, I had the shades put on, but I'm going to start flying people in later this year, so we can definitely do it again sometime in the future. Anyway, lisa, thank you for coming on the show and I'll catch you guys next time. Have a good one.
