Philosophy for Life
Welcome to the Philosophy for Life podcast, hosted by Darron Brown, where we explore the profound questions and timeless wisdom that shape our existence. Join us on a journey of self-discovery and intellectual exploration as we delve into the depths of philosophy, spirituality, ethics, and the human experience. Through thought-provoking discussions, engaging interviews, and insightful analysis, we seek to unravel the mysteries of life and uncover the underlying truths that guide us. Discover practical insights and philosophical perspectives that can enrich your daily life, challenge your perspectives, and inspire personal growth. Whether you're a curious seeker, a deep thinker, or simply someone passionate about understanding the complexities of our world, Philosophy for Life is your gateway to wisdom and enlightenment. Subscribe now and embark on a transformative quest to gain clarity, find purpose, and embrace the profound beauty of existence.
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Philosophy for Life
Fight Smarter: Avoid the Most Common Argument Patterns with Nick Solaczek
Ever been caught in a whirlwind of 'he said, she said' and wish you knew the steps to transform conflict into connection? Join us as Nick Salacek, a seasoned relationship coach, shares the floor with me to navigate the stormy seas of discord in partnerships. Our conversation is not just about avoiding the rocks but sailing through them to discover uncharted territories of personal and shared growth. We're breaking down the walls of stubbornness with stories and strategies, affirming that clashes aren't just inevitable but essential for the depth and maturity of your love story.
Through the lens of difference, we uncover the magnetic pull of opposites and the dance of communication that keeps the flame of passion and respect burning bright. We tackle the tough questions: How do societal scripts dictate our responses in tender moments? How do we maintain the unique essence of 'I' while entwined with another? Nick and I shed light on the influential work of David Deida and dissect attachment styles that silently steer our ship—acknowledging that while we can't rewrite our beginnings, we can certainly plot a new course for our relational dynamics.
In the final stretch, we cast a net over the broader landscape of relationships. From the shadow of family influences to the sanctuary of couples counseling, we reflect on the delicacy of individual identity amidst the duet of partnership. Personal growth, community pillars, and the courage to seek support—these are the buoys we identify to keep your relationship afloat. We leave no stone unturned, diving into how to maintain authenticity and kindness while setting necessary boundaries. So, if you're ready to evolve from surviving to thriving in your relationships, this episode is your compass.
One way that people adapt to this needing for it to be okay to be them is to become really rigid, stubborn and opinionated so that no one can penetrate their mind, no one can tell them what to do, and it also can become something self-sabotaging where they're not as willing or open to let new ideas in and hear other people's perspectives, because they typically had a dominating parent who was always trying to put ideas in their head and control them and tell them what to do.
Speaker 2:Hey, what's up, guys? Doran here and I'm here with Nick Salacek. He's a relationship coach. He specializes in helping couples deal with conflict within the relationships. Nick, am I missing anything else?
Speaker 1:Well, there's a lot we could talk about, but that is essentially it. I help couples talk to each other in a way that well, doesn't piss them off right? We got to learn how to talk to each other in a way that actually makes our relationship work, and everyone seems to encounter challenges with that.
Speaker 2:I think that's the biggest issue in relationships. My last relationship actually ended because there was no kind of conflict resolution. It was kind of my mistake because I read a book and can't remember if it was Boundaries and Relationships. But a book that I read is said that if you're going to be in a relationship, you guys need to have a plan for resolving conflict. I spoke to her before even starting a relationship. I said, hey, maybe we should create a plan for a resolving conflict. She was completely against it but because she was hot, I was like screw it. It ended up biting me in the ass down the road. But hey, you live, you learn.
Speaker 2:What I want to know is I'm currently in a new relationship. It's been about five to six months. This woman is the best woman I've ever been with. She's from Pakistan. But the thing that shocks me about the relationship is that it's too good. We haven't had any kind of conflict argument. Typically when I'm seeing somebody, it's like oh, they're okay, I can deal with this subtle nuance that I don't like, but there's nothing I don't like about this person. I told her. I was like hey, we can't. I don't feel comfortable having a serious relationship until we have some kind of conflict. I need to know how we resolve that. Do you need conflict in a relationship for it to be healthy?
Speaker 1:Well, that's a great question. I believe that all relationships have conflict a part of them. When I talk about healthy relationships, connected relationships, conscious relationships, I'm always reminding people that, hey, we're going to have conflict, it's normal, it's healthy, it's part of the arrangement. There are two different people who have their own perspectives, their own values, their own preferences. Coming together, sometimes living together, and now you guys have two nervous systems together in the same space, trying to manage logistics.
Speaker 1:You're not always at your best, as you might be showing up to a first or a second date. You start to see more of who someone is day to day the longer that you're with them. Some of that includes our little quirks, our defensiveness, our offensiveness, the part of us that could shut down or the part of us that could get really, really worked up and anxious about something. So do you need conflict? I think that another way to think about this is what's the purpose of your relationship? And most people they want to have a relationship. They want to have a connection that is empowering and is connected.
Speaker 1:Some people really value growth. I'm one of these people that I want to grow. I want to know myself better through relationship and I view my partner as a mirror and a reflection, and there's something that could be deeply spiritual about that. But I just genuinely am interested in living a life that is great and I want to try to reduce my suffering. I know I can't turn it down all the way, because suffering is a part of life, but how can I have a harmonious experience of being together? And in my view, conflict is a growth opportunity. That's part of the paradigm that I'm certified in through the Amago world and we can talk more about that.
Speaker 1:Conflict also is just this tension that brings us together, part of the reason we're attracted to this person in the first place, to our romantic partners. There's some tension between us. Maybe they have something that we want, maybe they possess certain traits and characteristics that we admire and respect, we want to be closer to, and there's something in that that naturally can develop conflict, especially when our brain notices the differences between us and our partner, we can start to code those things as danger. I will just say one thing, which is that if you've been dating for five to six months, good for you guys. That's really the honeymoon phase, and most people believe that that phase lasts two to six months, so this doesn't mean that month seven you guys are going to erupt into enormous conflict and you're in that honeymoon zone. You're focused on the similarities and maybe there hasn't been a subject matter or something triggering to come up that's really inspired that to happen. And obviously I wish you guys a lot of peace and harmony, but inevitably there'll be something you guys butt heads over, right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's funny. We had a I want to say subtle, we almost had an argument. I want to say about a few weeks ago I just read a text message replied with a yes when she asked a question about something completely different. But I was excited about this opportunity to have conflict and to resolve it. But when I, when I called her and tried to address it, she just said I explained to her what happened and she basically had told me don't worry about it, I miss. Read text messages all the time, don't sweat it. It went by smoothly. So I was just kind of like huh, that's different, you know, no whining, no bickering at each other, no pointing the finger, none of that. So it was kind of it's still kind of weird for me.
Speaker 2:Like you said, it's the honeymoon phase. What I'm wondering is that friction, like if you have friction within your relationship is that a sign that you guys may not be compatible? Because I mean, I've listened to podcasts before and one of the key things that couples say couples have been together for a long time they say that they knew that this person was right for them pretty early on in a relationship. Things kind of float easily. So do you need friction in the relationship for it to be yeah. If you guys have friction in your relationship, is that a sign that you guys are not compatible?
Speaker 1:Well, it depends how you define friction, because some people have friction where they disagree. They don't see eye to eye on things. They might even believe in different gods. They might have a different idea about how things should go on a Sunday morning, how much time they should spend together every week, how fast they should drive on the freeway. There's going to be friction about these things, so it just tends to be natural, and part of the reason that we get this natural friction and tension between two people sometimes is because we are individuals.
Speaker 1:We're attracted to our partner because they are not us. They're not totally like us. They're actually unique and different in their own way, and what couples often find is that there are some strengths and abilities that each partner brings to the partnership, which is also required to make the thing work. Like there's always one person in the partnership that is distressed by closeness. They want more independence, more freedom, more time to themselves, and they partner with and they marry and they fall in love with someone who's distressed by separation, who gets a little bit more anxious when there's space, who can have fears and insecurities about spending time apart and what that means.
Speaker 1:And couples have to work out that dance. It's like the avoidant anxious pattern or the windshield wiper effect, going back and forth. There's a number of reasons that this happens, so the friction is normal. It's natural, it's kind of part of the process. Me and my partner we have friction sometimes, but we've put a lot of work into our relationship such that day to day things feel harmonious, it feels good, it feels aligned, it feels like we're on the right track, we're going in the right direction. And if someone is having friction in their relationship that feels unsafe, feels chaotic, feels actually kind of scary, that's something that I wouldn't recommend as a long-term dynamic. Ask what?
Speaker 2:you're saying, if it's volatile, maybe that's a sign that you need to step away from it. When there is an issue within a relationship, how do you address those issues without making your partner feel criticized or attacked?
Speaker 1:One of the hardest things to do is to not take things personally, to make the situation all about you or to perceive your partner's behavior as an attack or an insult, even if it is.
Speaker 1:There's a difference in observing what's going on and taking it personally and then reacting.
Speaker 1:And when it comes to conflict, one of my mentors likes to say that the most dangerous thing that we do in romantic partnership is talk, because when we talk, we can talk in monologue, we can talk down, we can get condescending, we can criticize, insult, call names, we can dismiss our partner's view of reality and we really start to create inequality and we can arouse our partner in a way that is not the kind of arousal that couples are looking for.
Speaker 1:We arouse anxiety, and when people feel that way, they often use negativity to try to get their partner to change or to see their perspective or to agree with them. So one of the most powerful things that you could do in a disagreement or conflict or approaching a difficult conversation is to use eye statements to talk about your reality, what you're experiencing, what you're feeling, why you want to have this conversation, why it's important to you, instead of pointing your finger at the other person and saying you did this to me, you're ruining my life, you always do this. I hate when this happens and bringing it's just inherently a negative kind of shaming tone. So it's one of the first places I encourage people or guide people to start is to try to talk about themselves without bringing down their partner.
Speaker 2:You mentioned earlier that people who are independent they will attract a partner that is a little bit more clingy. Why do we attract our opposites, or is there any kind of truth to that opposites attract?
Speaker 1:There's a lot of truth to that and the opposites attract dynamic has a lot to do with aspects of our core self. One example would be the way that men are socialized and conditioned in the family system. In society we got messages like boys, don't cry. And when young boys, young men, show emotion, they might be bullied for that, they might be picked on for that. They might be called names if they're sensitive. So a lot of guys learn that it's better to be tough and stoic and hardened and to not show any vulnerability right, don't let them see blood and we become conditioned over time because their incentives for us are things that we want to avoid. We certainly don't want to be picked on, criticized, bullied. We don't want to be seen as weak and we develop certain strengths, like a lot of guys are really great at thinking and acting, which is more of a logical approach to life, and I'm stereotyping here a little bit, but it is helpful because there is a general pattern here and about 80% of men are this way. They're more logical. They partner with someone who's emotional. It doesn't matter what sex you are, it doesn't matter what gender you are. You typically end up in a partnership where you've got this opposite dynamic. You can think of it as a yin-yang, masculine, feminine, whatever you want Emotional, logical, avoidant, anxious. There's usually this thing going on and it happens because our psyche is actually picking someone to help us grow. We're actually picking someone that has different strengths. For example, I'm the more logical person in my relationship. My partner is a more emotional person and that has challenged me in certain ways. If I want to make the relationship work, I got to learn how to relate to her emotionally. I got to learn to actually hear more about what her experience is, without trying to insert my logic or my ideas about right and wrong onto her, and just hold space for that, which is really about listening non-defensively, being curious, trying to make more sense of what she's experiencing. And that has helped me grow as a person, has helped me communicate better in other relationships, helped me in my work with couples and also helped me get more in touch with some of the feelings that I've got, the sensations in my body that maybe I wasn't so attuned to before because I was thinking so much and focused on facts and logic and reason.
Speaker 1:And there's a truth here for the opposite, which could be, if we want to stick with a stereotype here that women are. It's more acceptable for women to feel their feelings or be sensitive, and so they develop more of a strength and a capacity in that realm and our psyche actually recognizes this and is drawn towards that opposite's dynamic. This is really all part of Harvel Hendricks' theory and it's what I'm certified in a MAGO certified as an MAGO clinical therapist and part of that paradigm is pointing to the fact that we got this opposite's attract dynamic and it's not happening to create a nightmare. It's actually happening for us to reclaim parts of ourselves that were not nurtured or developed.
Speaker 1:So the part of me that thought I got to be tough, I got to be dangerous, better not let anybody know that I'm vulnerable in any way or have any kind of sensitive feelings, and there's all kinds of roadblocks and sticking points that you might imagine. If you're not in touch with yourself or you're not in touch with your emotions, it can be very difficult to identify what you need. People wear the mask like I don't have any needs, all good here, nothing to see, and then they can basically also simultaneously believe that their partner is super needy and they're the one that have all these needs. That's just one example. There's so many ways that this kind of stuff plays out in relationship.
Speaker 2:You mentioned two things I just stood out. You mentioned the patriarchy and you also mentioned the yin and the yang. The yin and yang reminds me of David Data's book the Way of the Superior man. He talks about sexual polarity within relationships and having your polar opposite and basically creating that balance within your relationships. And then the patriarchal stereotype. What I'm wondering is, that is, the patriarchal role that society places on men. Is that getting in the way of men having romantic relationships?
Speaker 1:I think that it gets in the way in many, many different setups. Really, what we're talking about here is power. So when there's a lack of equality in a relationship perceived lack of equality that really gets in the way. When men feel like, maybe, like in certain cultures, men see their wives more as second rate or as possessions or they don't have in certain countries they don't even have certain rights. Women are not encouraged to do certain things.
Speaker 1:I live in Canada but personally, regardless of where I live, I value equality in my relationship and my partner does as well, so we want to co-create that together. So, regardless of the norms in society and the things that we're taught, I think we can transcend those in our personal lives. We're able to make choices and agreements that honor something more empowering. Are these things getting in people's way? Yes, I think. Actually.
Speaker 1:What's more, a challenge is our lack of awareness about our attachment style and relationships, how we respond to conflict, how we use young, immature strategies that we use as a child with our adult partner.
Speaker 1:These are the things that are creating more of the conflict, the misunderstanding, the chaos and relationships, and those are things that I particularly focus on, because I'm really about creating results and want people to have practical tools and understandings that aren't just vague or beyond the dynamic of being together. So there are lots of things going on in society that you might deem is wrong or you'd like to change, but for couples it can be empowering to just focus on that space between. That's really the focal point of my work, which is like everything you put into that space, everything you say or don't say, everything you do or don't do becomes the felt sense of the relationship and a lot of the couples I work with they got lots of money in the bank and they don't have a lot of positivity in that space between and there's so many reasons for this in terms of what's emphasized in our culture is important, but we just don't have great role models.
Speaker 1:We don't have a lot of great examples. I don't know about you, but when I was growing up, I didn't see a lot of really attuned, harmonious conflict resolution. There was more short statements, passive aggressiveness, dismissive patterns and a real lack of what I call being gotten, which is I have the sense that you understand me and I have the sense that I understand you and just total sincerity with that, no assumptions, no pretending, and it's one of the most important things for our romantic relationships.
Speaker 2:Yeah, just thinking about my childhood, the one thing that I didn't have was what do I want to say? Intimacy and affection. My mother, she never hugged me, you know, not until I moved from my home state and she didn't see me for a few years and she would give me like this little you know tap on the back when she would see me. But it was, that was her way of giving me a hug and show me that she loved me. And the reason I bring that up is because in my early relationships, I remember women telling me I was cold and I couldn't understand it. I thought I'm here, I'm respectful, I'm having sex with you. What else do you need? I'm the perfect partner.
Speaker 2:And it wasn't until I actually built strong friendships with women and I could see how they were towards me a simple hug or just like laying on my shoulder or sharing information with me, just having a listening ear for them, that I understand, like, okay, this is what was missing in my romantic relationships. I wasn't given this aspect of myself. How do you get men to? Men are attracting their polar opposite. Women are a little bit more affectionate. How do you get men to be aware that they are lacking when it comes to intimacy or the more feminine side of their personality, that's a good question.
Speaker 1:I suppose there's a few approaches to that, but one of the first is really just taking on a philosophy that your partner, the person you're paired with, whether you in your mind have an idea that that's for life or that it's for a few years, you really could use that as an opportunity to listen to their observations, like in the way that you did. You said, oh, my partner pointed this thing out to me and I hadn't seen that before and it didn't really click. But then over time I started to notice that actually there's something here for me and the way that I show up can be sometimes a little bit cold or not that affectionate. Then I might be repeating a pattern or playing something out which is part of my childhood, which everybody does with carbon copies of our parents. If we look closely enough, even though we don't want to be and that would be one of the first places to start with respect to change, just being open, being willing and listening to that feedback, because we all get it If you're paired with someone long enough, you're going to get feedback.
Speaker 1:You're going to get some observation, something pointed out to you. It might be pointed out in a way that's negative. It might yell at you, it might not come across very well, but within that there is some desire for change that the partner is requesting and there is a growth opportunity for yourself. This is why most couples, therapists and myself continually using this phrase growth opportunity, because inside of that dynamic is an opportunity for one person to grow, to express themselves in a new way, to connect in a deeper way, to maybe just be more curious. Maybe that's their growth edge, maybe it's to take off the mask that they're perfect and acknowledge that, oh, they have some areas where they can improve.
Speaker 2:You mentioned attachment styles. Do you mean love languages?
Speaker 1:I don't. So attachment styles are something different and a lot of couples know about the love languages and it's been something that's actually really useful model for couples to start talking about what they want from each other and what they desire and what they want more of in a what I think is a productive way. Attachment styles are something different, which is those start developing when we're in utero, before we're born. They form over time in our family system, depending on what our relationship is like with one of and or both of our parents. What's happening in our environment as a child and at a basic level? When a child doesn't know whether it's going to get healthy connection from one of or both of its parents, it adapts and that adaptation just becomes a way of life, a way of being, a way of relating. You wake up in the morning and it's just who you are.
Speaker 1:And some of those styles can sabotage our success and relationship because we are not aware that we have a style and we're not aware that it's playing a role or an impact, that we have a certain tendency, we have a certain emphasis or a default orientation. So, to maybe make more sense of that, there's one style that everybody wants which is secure. It's called secure attachment. And there are three other styles which are known as insecure, avoidant, anxious and disorganized. And when couples start learning more about these, they notice that when they evaluate their childhood, they answer like 140 questions that they show up generally across all the styles.
Speaker 1:They have a range of experiences, sometimes predominantly more in one category, and one type of person that everybody knows about is the avoidant, the person that's more focused on themselves. They have more of an emphasis on logic and facts, they are comfortable on their own, they're distressed by closeness and they get paired up with the anxious person who is more emotional. They're more focused on the other, to the detriment of themselves sometimes, and we are aware of these things when we experience them in partnership as things that are frustrating to us, annoying to us, and we don't notice that there's actually an attachment style here that was developed in childhood and can be healed. All of these things can be evolved and transformed. We just need to know how, and we need to be working with a partner who also wants to create more of a secure dynamic, which might be called secure functioning. We can't change the core scene of our childhood that's locked in, but we can make new choices as adults to create more safety, more aliveness and a more empowering situation.
Speaker 2:These avoidant attachments? Are they sometimes genetic or are they usually always related to a childhood event that?
Speaker 1:occurred. Well, there's a lot of different thinking on that and I'm not an expert in the genetics so I won't speak on that. But the original attachment theory is really talking about the child-parent relationship and the way that that forms certain adaptations. So if a parent is rejecting, if they are negative, if they are not available to the child in a certain way they can't offer, they can't meet the child's emotional needs. For example, the child could develop more of an avoidant pattern, learn how to do things for themselves over time, not rely so much on other people, and that creates some of that independence. But they can become like an island as well, sort of isolated and on their own, feeling like they don't belong in the world, maybe having other existential issues.
Speaker 2:Well, the reason I even bring that up is because I'm trying to relate it to myself. There was an incident when I was a kid where my mother she was going through a breakup with my stepfather and I just remember she was stressed out a lot, she was screaming a lot and I used to go to school with headaches and I remember coming home one time and she yelled at me for something I can't remember, but I remember that she yelled at me and they gave me this painful headache and then I just was like I'm never letting this happen to me again. I'm not dating anybody that yells at me and really I just shut down and I saw within my relationships and most of them I was what were nice to me. But when somebody yelled at me in a relationship, if I saw it wasn't going anywhere good anytime soon, I would just shut down and be like, hey, I'm not, I'm not even for talking to you, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Which is very different than you yelling back or you getting louder, or you getting really, really, really anxious about what's going on and starting to worry and panic. It sounds like your orientation at that time was actually back off, shut down, get quiet, not engage in this conversation because you don't like the yelling and maybe start doubting it and thinking you know what, maybe I'm going to get out of here. I don't know. This is the partner for me, yeah, yeah. So that'd be more of like the avoidance style and that has its own growth opportunities and that person I resonate with that style as well has its own hurts and fears. Everyone's got fears in a relationship, and if we can take ownership of the fact that we have that tendency, we're one step closer to actually making a new kind of choice, making a choice that might be good for us or good for the partnership, instead of doing the thing that's familiar, that's been patterned over decades.
Speaker 2:Another thing I used to do is I would engage in relationships that I knew weren't gone anywhere, like it was predominantly just sexual, it was temporary, and I would avoid women who really liked me and women that I really liked, because I felt like they wanted something from me at a time that I couldn't give them. You know, when I was younger, I thought I need to focus on playing football, I need to focus on my career. I don't feel like I'm a man, I don't feel like I'm capable of having, worthy of having a stable relationship, so I would push away women when I saw that they were falling in love with me or they really liked me because I just I had this, I just had. I knew I had a fear around that I've no longer had that, but I know I had it. Then Do you know, is that, is that is that common within relationships pushing love away.
Speaker 1:Yeah, very common. It could be part of this avoidant pattern. It can be a little disorganized, which is sort of a yes no. It can be more of a fearful avoidant pattern. But it's convenient for us sometimes to be at a distance from a romantic partner so that we don't have to face certain fears or be vulnerable.
Speaker 1:Love is risky, you know. Being close, getting connected or attached to another person is a challenge. At some point we are all going to die and between now and then we can experience loss, we can experience hurt, our partner could cheat on us, they could reject us in some way. It's a. It's a vulnerable thing. You know to be in relationship and I think a lot of men resonate with this feeling that I'm not ready yet or I'm not there yet. And that's sometimes a different thing, which is that I don't feel like I'm on purpose or I'm on track, or I have stability, or I'm I'm in the right place where I feel worthy enough or confident enough. It could be a sense of not being ready or unworthy, I think, is the word that you used.
Speaker 2:I'm just thinking about conflict within relationships. I'm wondering when is it okay to when is it okay to move on? Because I hear a lot that you shouldn't try to fix people in a relationship. You should try to accept them for who they are. And this statement reminds me of the previous relationship I was talking about earlier.
Speaker 2:There was a situation I was seeing the woman and she I noticed the more comfortable she got, the more abusive or nasty she got. So she started. There was an incident where she was insulting me in front of her family and it was the first time it had ever happened because everything else was good and I was just kind of like thrown off and her mother saw that I was thrown off. So when she walked away and I felt comfortable with the mother and I was like what was that all about? She told me she gets it from me and I was like whoa, and she was like I can't remember what I said after that, but I remember she had to follow it up with.
Speaker 2:In a relationship you just have to accept people for who they are. You just you can't change them and ultimately that relationship didn't work. But I do remember her saying that and she could see the look on my face and the vibe change in the room like what the hell. So how do you feel about that? Do you feel like when should you move on or when should you actually try to work through those difficult moments?
Speaker 1:I believe that we all have to change if we wanna be successful in relationships. We all have to change. It doesn't mean I need to change my entire identity. It doesn't mean I need to change my hairstyle, throw out my wardrobe and talk differently, but it does mean that I might have to make little adjustments and refinements, that I might have to take responsibility for some of my ways of being, my actions, behaviors, my thinking. That might not serve the relationship, and I hear people say this a lot don't take on a project, don't try and fix your partner, don't try and solve all their problems and there's definitely some wisdom in that, but you often find that actually, your partner needs support on certain things from you and you might sometimes need support on certain things from them.
Speaker 1:And when it comes to conflict, there's a number of reasons that relationships go sideways, but one of them is this thing we talked about before talking is the most dangerous thing that we do. We need to learn how to talk differently. We need to learn how to hang in there in the difficult moments and stick together as a team to actually take on a new paradigm and a new attitude that serves our relationships. This is why I say that we all need to actually change. None of us are perfect. I'm not perfect. I hear you saying you're not perfect. We've all got growth edges.
Speaker 1:And if we actually acknowledge that, how does that change the way that we relate in these moments and the way that we restore empathy for each other? We can sense what each other is feeling and connect to that reality. So I don't think it's a great idea to always be trying to fix each other. But how can you develop this attitude that, hey, we're here as a team, we both got to grow and we've got our little quirks and our nasty sides or our dark sides that can come out. How can we protect each other from that? How can we protect the relationship from the parts of us that want to self-sabotage or get mean in a certain moment, get loud Because that stuff's got to go? It doesn't work and I don't think that's news to anybody listening to this that being negative, nasty, being mean and yelling at your partner is not going to help things. It's not going to create a more exciting, a pleasurable, loving relationship.
Speaker 2:What amazes me is that we're all hearing this message. We hear it in our childhood, we hear it in adulthood. I've known people who looked like angels on the front end, but you really get to know them. They're pretty nasty. They can be pretty nasty, they can be verbally abusive. And I'm wondering is that, although we know better and we don't do better, why do people tend to start working on themselves, like after the relationship has ended, like at rock bottom? Why do people start trying to fix things where their partner wanted to fix these things throughout the relationship? They only try at the end? Why does that happen?
Speaker 1:Well, part of that is just the way that we're motivated by suffering and we've all got resistance to change. When it comes to working on oneself, we've got resistance. I'm certified in this. I do this for a living. I talk with couples every day about the challenges in their relationship and for me and my partner, sometimes we'd rather repaint the living room than actually sit down and have a connected, conscious conversation or do relationship work. You know, it's way easier to turn on Netflix or go for a walk or do some other activity that doesn't require us to look in the mirror and reflect.
Speaker 1:In terms of resistance, it's one of the things that contributes to people being stuck in partnership and there's a tendency here, you know, going back to stereotypes for the woman to drag the man into therapy or counseling or coaching. And you know, I believe, that there's a few key dynamics there that are at play. One is the man's resistance to being told what to do, resistance to, you know, feeling like he's weak or inferior, that he can't figure himself, figure things out for himself, which is kind of like the old cliche about not stopping and asking for directions at the gas station when you're lost. There's kind of a pride and there are many other masks and shields and defenses and things that we've got that prevent us from wanting to change because we fear that we're gonna have to sacrifice our identity or who we are in some way, and that's a really, really big piece.
Speaker 1:That is relevant because when we're kids, it's often not okay to be us in a certain way. You know, we're told to sit down, shut up, speak up, go to your room. We don't always get to make our own choices, our feelings aren't always honored because the parents are stressed out, managing their own priorities and can fail to be totally attuned to what's going on for the kid, and we all want it to be okay to be us. In fact, it's a biological imperative that we will adapt to ensure that that happens. So you know, for example, one way that people adapt to this needing for it to be okay to be them is to become really rigid, stubborn and opinionated so that no one can penetrate their mind, no one can tell them what to do, and it also can become something self-sabotaging, where they're not as willing or open to let new ideas in and hear other people's perspectives, because they typically had a dominating parent who was always trying to put ideas in their head and control them and tell them what to do, and there's a fear of repeating that.
Speaker 2:You said something about like think something around along the lines of parenting, and it reminded me of my childhood. I wasn't just raised by my parents, but my grandparents also raised me. My uncles, my aunts, like everybody, lived within like the same block of each other. So I had a community and a lot of times parents may not your parents, may not have the tools to teach you something as a kid, but because you had other relatives that were nearby, they are more mature, they may have had those tools or developed that skill set over time and they were able to help you. So reason I say that is I think that today, being a man or a woman in this complex society, it's difficult because we don't have the support systems that we once had before in the past. I wanna say, in my relationship history, one thing that I noticed is that I used to cling onto relationships that already did and I would wait for the girl to break up with me.
Speaker 2:Once I started doing a lot of self-work and I was very, a lot more mindful who I gave my body to and I felt like I brought more to the table. I became more selective and when I would have these difficult moments in the relationship, I would address those issues and ultimately the relationship didn't work. I would end up ending the relationship. But one thing that stands out is that a lot of the women one thing they had in comments that they felt like they weren't good enough because I would break up with them. They felt rejected, which makes sense, but they felt like they weren't good enough.
Speaker 2:How do you, how do you have, how does somebody address an issue within a relationship, a character flaw or a behavior that just isn't gonna help the relationship work? How do you address those characteristics without making your partner feel like they aren't good enough? Because I'm pretty sure that you may love your partner, that it would be something that bothers you, rubs you in the wrong way, but if you do address that issue, it could potentially make your partner feel insecure. So how do you keep your partner, make your partner feel secure and also address those issues?
Speaker 1:Yeah, great question. So there's a couple of key things here that are really important. You can't fully control the way that your partner is going to receive something. So if I'm highly insecure, it might not matter how you say it. You know I might take it personally and that might require you to reassure me or remind me or point out that, hey, you know, I feel like you're taking this personally, making it about you, so you just you can't always control that, but I believe we can increase the chances that our partner can hear us in a better way.
Speaker 1:The way that we say things dictates a lot of the time how it's heard and how it's received. So when we use those I statements that I was talking about, when we speak positively about the outcomes that we desire, when we emphasize that, hey, this relationship is really important to me and I want things to work between us. And something that I really would love more from you is, you know, framing our requests and our desires in a positive way. Our tendency is to focus on the negativity. We've got a negativity bias. Our tendency is to air and vent all of our frustrations, maybe become enraged, and the way that we express those is typically not in a healthy, productive manner.
Speaker 1:So positivity, using I statements talking about your future intention for the relationship. What's your vision? You know, why do you want these changes to take place? Why is it that you really want something more from your partner, and can you do that at a time that they're available, where they, you know, consent to having a conversation which could take 30 minutes to an hour, and, you know, set yourself up for success in that way. It's not a great idea to bring a really vulnerable conversation like this to your partner while they're managing pots and pans, cooking dinner for the family. You know going to find some quiet time to make your request.
Speaker 2:Why do some people feel like they have to control their partner? I've seen time-ranical men abuse women. I've seen women that were time-ranical also abuse men. But what does that stem from? Typically from a childhood.
Speaker 1:There's a few ways that that can manifest. It's really all about fear. So I have certain fears about, let's say, loss of love, or a fear of rejection, or a fear of being dominated or controlled, a fear of being abandoned, a fear of being neglected. There are different ways that these experience, experiences motivate us, and when we're kids, we observe in the family system around us a certain set of strategies and behaviors. So if you notice that you're controlling or your partner's controlling in relationship, one thing I encourage people to look at or to ask themselves is what does that remind you from childhood? What does this experience of controlling your partner or wanting to or being controlled remind you of from childhood?
Speaker 1:Because the truth is, there's usually a part of us that's drawn to a person like that in the first place because we experienced it before. We're drawn towards a kind of familiar way of relating, a familiar kind of love for better or worse, and the individual that wants to control is probably becoming like one of their parents. It's like they learned that strategy as a kid to manage their partner, to reduce their anxiety. It's like I'm feeling anxious about this, so I'm going to use control or negativity to change you or make sure you don't do that thing, so that I don't have to feel anxious, and then we're good. But we're not really good, because now the relationship is about power instead of equality, competition, competition yeah, I want to say you said fear, so a lot of this control stems from fear.
Speaker 2:What are some things that you can do, if possible, to help your partner feel safe within that relationship?
Speaker 1:Safety is a big deal and we've all got different ideas about what safety means. We think that maybe if I had gifts under the tree and food under the fridge and mom and dad didn't hit me too much, that it was relatively safe. And we've all heard difficult stories about people's trauma conditions they grew up in. We've seen photos or visited countries where people are living in more impoverished conditions. And if we grew up in a home with a family with food in the fridge, you know, with electricity and AC, you know it might think, holy, I had it pretty good, you know, I got nothing to complain about and we might tell ourselves that story. Our parents might have told us that story. You know, you have no idea. You need to be grateful, but safety is much more than just a roof over your head and two live functioning parents. So if couples want to create more of that, I would suggest a couple of things and I frame this up actually as five key things that couples need, and there are attunement we talked about that earlier. Like I get you, you get me. There's sincerity in that and an effort to to understand. We need integrity. Our actions have to match our words or the person that we say we are. And you know, with that comes truthfulness, that we make an effort to tell the truth. We're not betraying our partner, being deceitful, lying, hiding. We show up as a consistent and reliable person, that we're not Jekyll and Hyde One day, this one day, that that can be kind of a chaotic pattern. And the fifth is the ability to repair, which means that I am willing and able to apologize, say hey, me, a culpa, my bad, okay, this one's on me. I need to take ownership that I showed up this way in that moment. Not only do that, but also be willing to receive repair attempts from your partner. When they apologize, they say hey, honey, I'm really sorry, you know, instead of saying yeah, well, you know what you know. Actually be able to take that in and let that in and have a conversation. That's a really big deal. And all of those things come together to create safety.
Speaker 1:There are other pieces to this, but these are some of the things I find couples can focus on, that they can define clearly and I even get them to evaluate, you know, on a scale of one to 10, how they feel these categories and their relationship are. And going back to your last question how can we get more of what we want? How can we make positive changes? How can I bring this to my partner in a way that doesn't insult them or put them down or have them take it personally? And both couples usually will find that like, oh yeah, I would love more of this, like in an ideal world, 10 out of 10, you know, if we were both in integrity, it would mean you would finally finish that project in the yard.
Speaker 1:It means that when you say you're going to be home for dinner at six, you come home for dinner at six and you don't commit to things you can't do. You don't tell me you're going to do something if you can't do it. Those are really common, common examples, and safety is a big deal. The second thing there that I learned from Harpal Hendricks, who wrote this great book Getting the Love you Want, which is part of my therapy training, is he really believes that couples need two things to have a thriving relationship safety and aliveness. And that led me to actually investigate and put into better words okay, what is safety? What does that mean? How can couples create it? And that's what I was just describing in terms of the five bullet points there.
Speaker 2:What stands out to me is vulnerability. Somebody that's in a weak state, in a fearful state. How do they get the strength to be vulnerable? Because you can't heal without vulnerability, you can't really love without vulnerability.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, the weakness could manifest in many different ways, but a conscious relationship requires us to remember our strength in moments of difficulty, in moments of weakness, and in there is a growth opportunity of some kind. So, depending on the fear or the insecurity that's a part of that, you might talk it through. You might practice a conversation, for example, with a friend or a therapist or a person that's safe, like sometimes. I'll encourage people to do this. If they're feeling really afraid, they're feeling like they don't know what to do or how to do it, they might practice a conversation with me.
Speaker 1:I actually have a free, difficult conversation tool that people can find on my Instagram and download. That helps set up a framework for practicing, rehearsing, writing out some of these conversations to develop a little bit more confidence. The tricky part here and I think this is really what you're pointing to is, if I feel weak, if I feel not enough in some way, if I feel like I don't know how or I don't have the skills, the way that I actually built confidence is by going and doing, by making an effort. Sometimes that means screwing it up or getting it wrong Doing our best to move the needle in our life with the skills that are available to us and putting our hand up for support when we're stuck Be comfortable being uncomfortable.
Speaker 2:That's what I get from that. I play sports a lot. Growing up, I play college football and I know just as an athlete you don't get better. Your mistakes make you better. You learn from the shots that you missed. You learn from the football catches that you missed, the tackles you missed. That's how you get better. You need to perfect your talent. We mentioned, I want to say, love languages. A little bit earlier. We briefly spoke about that. Do you feel like love languages are important to understand. I thought about going over this with my partner.
Speaker 1:Love languages are helpful. I actually never read the book in full, but I've discussed those over the years with romantic partners that I've had. It's something that is really helpful for couples to take quick, actionable steps and better understand what they need from one another. I found that many couples enjoy it. I think if couples were going to do anything that they certainly could start there. What they really need to get to at a deeper level is the thing that they wanted and needed the most as a child and didn't get. That's the thing that is going to cause conflict. That's the information that your partner is actually going to need in moments of misunderstanding in order to break through, in order to transcend some of the repetitive conflicts and actually create corrective experiences, which is essentially healing and transformation in partnership.
Speaker 2:How do people look back and find out what needs they needed when they were a child? Does your program help people find out what their needs?
Speaker 1:are? Yes, it does. We explore that and there's a few steps that are part of that process, this whole framework of a mago, which is Latin for image. At the core of that is this idea that you are. We are all attracted to a composite image of mom and dad, a composite image of their strengths and weaknesses. If mom, for example, was anxious, loud, negative, controlling, and dad was unavailable, dismissive, angry, you're not only going to be drawn to a partner who is the things that you want them to be, the things that you value. You're also going to be drawn towards this composite image of these traits.
Speaker 1:Say it another way people are often attracted to a partner who often becomes the negative traits of their parents. I help couples map that out. Everybody I work with essentially establishes their personal relationship story, which brings all of these things together. Through that process, they get more clear on okay, the thing that I wanted and needed the most was, or the thing that I wanted and didn't get was maybe, oh, the freedom to be me, or safety, or physical affection, or the ability to make my own choices, connection so many different ways that people will frame that up.
Speaker 2:I'm smiling because it just makes me think. I literally dropped my mom off at the airport yesterday. She was here for the holidays. My mom she talks the most shit With my partner. I was talking to my mom about it. That's. The best part about my mom is that I can talk to her about anything. If I have an issue going on in my life, whether it has to do with a relationship or not, and it's serious enough, I'll speak to my mom before I speak to anybody else, because I know she'll keep it real. With that being said, sometimes my mom she doesn't like being vulnerable or having these kind of tough conversations where she'll cut you off or talk over you. My partner she doesn't do any of that Because I don't see her every day now that I'm away from home. The interaction we had over the holidays reminded me of that.
Speaker 2:One thing that my mom did do, though, when I was a kid, is that my mother she gave me the freedom to be who I wanted to be. She never pushed me academically. She never tried to push me in the field. She said A, c is a passing grade. If you want to do better, you got to try harder. That's on you. I understood that my future was what I made my future into. I'm just bringing something about how my relationship affects my current, how my relationship with my mother affects my current relationships. I want to, oh, go ahead. How about that?
Speaker 1:I was going to say you're a brave man for bringing your personal relationships your life. The old patterns you acknowledge were not great, or maybe they were self-sabotaging In some way. Sharing that here with your audience, because that's the thing that people are going to be able to relate to and see themselves and you and also give them some hope that hey, okay, these things can be changed and transformed. I find that in the relationship space there can sometimes be more of a projection that people are perfect, I've got it all together and look at me and just follow my advice and everything's going to work out well for you. But I know everything.
Speaker 2:I hate that as well. I mean there's a space I don't know how much you're on YouTube, but there's a space where they're called the red pill, where they're basically telling men that women are trash, they're gold diggers, they only want money. And I know women don't only want money. I know there's more to attracting a woman than just having a tight body and getting money. The nice guy gets a bad rep, but you do need nice guy qualities if you're going to be going to have a healthy relationship. You definitely need that.
Speaker 2:It's kind of like they completely forget that. They give these broad statements about oh, if she doesn't have blue hair, then she's wife material. The only way you really know if a woman is wife material or if you want to see how she is within a relationship, is to get to know her and her family. That's going to give you the best idea of who you're dealing with. But before okay, so we got five more minutes. I wanted to know. I have two more questions. So the next question is how do you know when a relationship, when a relationship is at the end of its timeframe or when a relationship has hope and you should keep moving forward within that relationship?
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a really, really tough question to answer. When is a relationship done, when is this dead and we need to move on? Only individuals can really establish that. I think that what couples need to be asking themselves is what are we doing to make positive changes? Have we made an effort here, to the best of our ability, to make positive changes, to address the challenges that we face, to work together as a team on this and that could take a year. It could take a couple years of professional support, of reading the right books, listening to the right podcasts.
Speaker 1:It's going to take time to create the changes that you want, but what I see most often and the statistic really is that 80 to 90% of couples don't seek counseling or support before divorce. Now, that has a little bit to do with the fact that some of these situations involve deep betrayal, cheating, addictions, things that people have a hard time overcoming. It doesn't mean they can't be overcome. It's just that people have a hard time with it, and where that leaves us is with a small percentage of the population that is doing the work together as a couple, which is very different than doing individual therapy or work as an individual, and there is hope for couples.
Speaker 1:I would say that if you have made an effort, you have worked with a professional, you have gotten some outside counsel and support and wisdom and you've given this a few years and nothing's changing. There's no progress. Your partner is unwilling to work on anything or discuss these matters of significance. That might be time to consider making a change. I would also say that if you're in that spot, get some individual support to talk about it. It could be very difficult to deal with a partner who's resistant, not willing to make changes or not work with you on things. That's really exhausting and it can be helpful to have a third party validate part of your reality and your experience and offer some suggestions based on your unique situation.
Speaker 2:If a relationship is healthy, the two partners are getting along well. What do you recommend for? How often should they go to therapy, if ever?
Speaker 1:It's really up to them in terms of where they feel that they're at. So my partner and I, we go to therapy. We do workshops or read a book or we'll do a session with the facilitator of our choice. Are we doing that every week at this stage? No, but there were times that we were. There were times that we were going every two weeks until we saw meaningful changes, until we both felt like, okay, I think we got to handle on this, like feeling, we're feeling some resilience, we feel like we've got it, and then it might be time to hang up the phone. You know, maybe not forever, but that's really up to each individual couple to feel like, okay, yeah, I think we've got this, or really getting somewhere. We're able to manage our conflicts in a much better way. These concepts are clicking, these new skills and ways of relating are, you know, being practiced and we're feeling more connected. We're feeling like, oh, this is much more of what we want. I would go until you get there.
Speaker 2:I get it. I get it. What I got from that was that therapy gives couples tools to have a healthy relationship. So once you went there a few times and you've gotten the tool set, you got familiar with how to use those tools. It's kind of like you can kind of exit and, you know, go on and confidently manage your relationship. Okay, so we're one more one minute left. So I typically I like to ask my guests like what is their philosophy for life? So what do you? What would you say your philosophy for life is? And then also, how can people reach out to you?
Speaker 1:Yeah well, thanks for having me on the show. My philosophy for life is that suffering is a part of life, which that might sound a little dark, but that I have an ability to reduce my suffering. You know I have an ability to make positive changes, to take control of my situation If I find myself in that victim mindset, doubting myself or doubting my path or my reality. That you know. I have an opportunity there to reflect, connect back to who I am and what I want my purpose is, and make make the positive and necessary changes.
Speaker 1:I think too many of us are disempowered. We're flooded with information, too many bad ideas, misguided advice and we're distracted. So think, part of what I'm encouraging there, for me and for all of us for 2024, is just connecting back to who we are to the degree that we can, and then remember what am I here to do? You know what am I all about, what do I want to accomplish? And to not give up on that, you know. So I think there's something compassionate in that message and in that philosophy. It's hard to summarize that in 60 seconds.
Speaker 2:No, I love that man. I love that because I feel like I've been on that journey as well. I felt so confident in my childhood, even though I didn't have my parents were great, my family was great, but, you know, I didn't grow up in this best environment and I felt like I was myself in that environment, but somewhere in my 20s I feel like I lost myself and I've been rediscovering who I was and what really matters to me and questioning some of the beliefs that I grew up with. You know, questioning, just just questioning culture and I think that's one of the cultural norms in general and taking pieces from other cultures that I do like, which helps me be me, you know. So I really resonated with that message.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, if anybody wants to connect with me in my work, they can find me at Nick Salacheck on Instagram, nicksalacheckcom, and they can connect with me there. And the thing to say here, doron, about the Red Pill community is the number one thing that women want in the survey data is trustworthiness. They want a man that they can trust, more than somebody with a big bank account or a big dick or a fast supercar, and they want someone they can trust, you know and nice might not be always the right way to describe the characteristics and qualities that are required and certainly kindness, you know, I think the nice term is associated with weakness. We need to be kind, we need to have boundaries and we need to be able to talk about things, you know, to create some spaciousness in the dynamics. So, yeah, I appreciate you having me on the show.
Speaker 2:Hey, thanks for coming on. I loved all your advice and you definitely have some wisdom to your message. But thanks, nick, thank you, have a good one.
